Nick,
Thesis, antithesis, synthesis. --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505 505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 10:58 AM Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> wrote: > I know. If we agreed without realizing it think of the time and work > we've spent. > > --- > Frank C. Wimberly > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > 505 670-9918 > Santa Fe, NM > > On Sun, Aug 29, 2021, 10:11 AM <thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dear Frenemy, >> >> >> >> What I HOPE I said is that you have no special means of access, no >> infallible aprehension of your own states. I hope I did not say that you >> have no information that I do not have, because that would be absurd. >> Every point of view gives access to different sources of [fallible] >> information. >> >> >> >> Geez! I would hate to think that we AGREED after all these years. >> >> >> >> N >> >> >> >> Nick Thompson >> >> thompnicks...@gmail.com >> >> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >> >> >> >> *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Frank Wimberly >> *Sent:* Sunday, August 29, 2021 11:04 AM >> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < >> friam@redfish.com> >> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Eternal questions >> >> >> >> Nick, >> >> >> >> I can't find the message to which this is an appropriate reply. Did you >> know once say to me that I have no private inner life or not? Maybe I have >> a false memory. >> >> Frank >> >> --- >> Frank C. Wimberly >> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >> >> 505 670-9918 >> Santa Fe, NM >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 26, 2021, 12:22 PM <thompnicks...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Ach! My point was I don't think you need organisms, or minds, or any of >> the "hard" stuff, to run into the logical problems entailed in moving >> between levels of organization. Perhaps I am just too old, too slow, too >> HOT, too uninformed, to be in this argument, right now. Or ever? Not >> without some help in language mediation, anyway, from some of my trusties, >> who are absent from the conversation. So, I bow out. But I love you all. >> >> N >> >> Nick Thompson >> thompnicks...@gmail.com >> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ >> Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2021 2:08 PM >> To: friam@redfish.com >> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Eternal questions >> >> Choosing a particular emotion misses the point, confuses the noise for >> the signal. The polyphenism, alone, demonstrates that starting with a >> particular emotion and working inversely from that phenotype to the >> generators is guaranteed to be a difficult problem ... you're guaranteeing >> that we stay stuck in this argument forever. >> >> Instead, work on the forward map from generator to phenomenon. The >> article Roger posted goes a long way to helping us understand how to get >> from molecules (or tissue, at least) to either glucose regulation or >> storage/retrieval. And we're not talking about billiard balls. We're >> talking about ion channels, neuron firing, collections of neurons firing, >> anatomical tissue and patterns of firing correlated with such tissue, and >> finally spectral analyses of such firing patterns. That carries us along a >> forward map from molecules to consciousness (or, at least, perception). >> >> And I don't think we're going to get to EricS' question without that >> compositional stack, because we're going to have to talk about which parts >> are Markovian and which parts are not (or are high-order Markovian). >> >> On 8/26/21 9:34 AM, thompnicks...@gmail.com wrote: >> > I guess I think in levels of organization, and my rants are always of >> > the form, Grant Each Level Its Due and Do Not Confuse Them. So you can >> discuss the amygdala all you want, but you still have not described, or >> identified, fear. >> > >> > >> > >> > So, you ask, how would a person of my persuasion go about explaining >> > the relation between the molecules in my skin and the excitation of >> those elections that produce on my screen, what I am writing. Never mind >> the socalled hard problem (the problem of the soul). Let’s figure out a way >> to talk about that. >> > >> > >> > >> > Or for that matter, let’s make it even simpler: Let’s talk about the >> > relation between the molecules of a cue ball that result in the motion >> of the eightball into a pocket and the loss of the game. Let’s even do >> some spherical cowing here and assume that one, and only one molecule of >> the cue ball touches one and only one molecule of the eightball. Is this a >> good model? Have I understood the question right? >> > >> > >> > >> > I don’t think Nick should say “I am my fear.” I think he should say >> > “I am the sum total of all the things that I do and that fear is one of >> the things I do”. Or, perhaps, to put it in terms of experience-monism, >> “I am all that I experience and when I experience my flight behavior in >> relation to my experience of my circumstances I experience my fear.” >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > I have to get back to that message from EricS that I bungled my >> response to. >> >> -- >> ☤>$ uǝlƃ >> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe >> http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> >> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> >> - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> >
- .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/