Thanks Glen, I have no problem with agency in plants if you have no problem with agency in humans. Plants even have intentionality, meaning that a world can be described relevant to a plant's needs, an umwelt, if you will. I like Barry's idea that trees are bad collectors energy, but why? Poplar leaves twirl in the wind; at the nano-scopic level, there are all sorts of rotors and turbines. The poplar doesn't have to collect energy if it can focus it locally, say on bud growth at the bud next to the leave stem.
N -----Original Message----- From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of glen Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2023 1:29 PM To: friam@redfish.com Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Trees as wind farms. "make use of" imputes agency on the trees. A better way to phrase it would be how/whether trees benefit from wind. But, if I'm a little more generous, maybe you're asking if there are any transduction or energy storage mechanisms triggered by the wind. https://bsapubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.3732/ajb.93.10.1466 "Touch, wind, and wounding all induced increased lipoxygenase (LOX) mRNA transcription in wheat (Triticum aestivum L.) seedlings (Mauch et al., 1997). The mechanical stress induced response occurred within 1 h after treatment, and the amount of transcript was reported to be strongly dose-dependent. LOXs are involved or implicated in a number of metabolic pathways associated with plant growth and development, ABA biosynthesis, senescence, mobilization of lipid reserves, wound responses, resistance to pathogens, formation of fatty acid hydroperoxides, and synthesis of jasmonic acid and traumatic acid (for review, see Mauch et al., 1997)." Maybe? On 6/27/23 09:19, Barry MacKichan wrote: > I would think the energy is too dispersed to be collectable. At risk of > bending this infant thread … you reminded me of John Muir: > > It has been said that trees are imperfect men, and seem to bemoan their > imprisonment rooted in the ground. But they never seem so to me. I never saw > a discontented tree. They grip the ground as though they liked it, and though > fast rooted they travel about as far as we do. They go wandering forth in all > directions with every wind, going and coming like ourselves, traveling with > us around the sun two million miles a day, and through space heaven knows how > fast and far! > > —Barry > > On 27 Jun 2023, at 11:38, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > > Sitting here at the farm, watching the Normandy poplars bend in the > Southeast wind, I am led to wonder why trees don’t make use of wind energy. > There must be a tangible amount of heat generated by the bending of branches. > Is there no way to use that heat for, for instance, convection of fluids > within the tree? > > Or do they? And I am just too ill educated to know it. > Nick -- ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ -. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
