Well, maybe. But a significant part of The Plan is indoctrination and 
court-packing through the Federalist Society. So maybe Thomas is a useful 
idiot. But maybe Gorsuch, ACB, and Alito are purposeful. I'm not clear on 
Kavanaugh. He's a political operator rather than a court-side purist. That 
could put him in either camp. The linguistic gymnastics Alito went through on 
Roe v Wade seems to put him squarely in the category Eric outlined.

On 7/2/24 10:20, Marcus Daniels wrote:
I think SCOTUS might be useful idiots too.   Easily bribed like with a motor 
home and free vacations.

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of glen
Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2024 10:11 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] [un]official disambiguation?

Right. MAGA are the useful idiots being exploited by the conservative arm of SCOTUS to push through 
the Unitary Executive, which, in turn, is the "useful idiot" being exploited by the 
wealthy to achieve the oligarchy as a stepping stone. And to some extent, this is Thiel's 
"Straussian Moment" or Yarvin's return to a kindasorta Monarchy. And the Pew data you 
pointed to demonstrate that, like in France, *we* don't mind that lukewarm authoritarianism ... 
Thiel's a bit like Plato's Philosopher King ... or maybe a better analogy is Thiel is like our 
Supreme Leader while Trump is like Ebrahim Raisi.

On 7/2/24 07:15, Marcus Daniels wrote:
The MAGAs aren't the wealthy, they are envious of the wealthy.   DJT included.

-----Original Message-----
From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of glen
Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2024 6:28 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] [un]official disambiguation?

I worry this is too conspiratorial. The only way I can see it sustaining is if we take selfishness 
as a core human trait in the same way we take reason/rationality as a core human trait. Both are 
false as crisp categories. But there's enough of either (and their inverses - self-sacrificing and 
embodied cognition, respectively) to wax and wane. Assessing whether or not, say, an oligarchy can 
maintain in the face of such a diverse and distributed system requires us to define relatively 
objective measures of selfishness (or "corruption" - but I'd argue defining that well is 
fraught). And a good measure of selfishness has to include, as you mention with Cannon's family, a 
measure of the size of the various tribes. My guess is the even if the wealthy recognize that other 
wealthies are in their tribe to some extent, there'll be more in-fighting amongst those elephants 
than there will be solidarity. Say what you want about capitalism, it encourages intra-tribal rifts 
and inter-tribal exchange. And that allows bursts of altruism or "universalist" beliefs. 
If the successive oligarchies are disrupted often enough, in complex enough ways, we may be able to 
continue approximating a democracy.

On 7/1/24 14:00, Santafe wrote:
I have an impression that the pattern of this and many other decisions is an 
acknowledgment — front brain or mid-brain; don’t know — that a 
second-government that isn’t the institutional one is now fully up and running.

Many years ago, when I was working with Shubik, he gave me a paper by one of 
his colleagues who had been active in trying to support the Aquino government 
in the Philippines as a realization of the constitutional system set up 
(whenever that was done).  The paper’s theme was that having laws on the books 
that nominally seem to “uphold” democratic governance in one place may be worth 
not-much someplace else, where the whole social culture — all the skills, 
networks of relation, expectations — are built on generations-long histories of 
what we would call corruption (but for them, is just how things get done).

scotus repeatedly disaggregates and ambiguously states the criteria for 
something, rather than taking any concrete and intelligible stand, and when 
there is a law that does take an intelligible stand, they make up some story 
that it doesn’t really say what it plainly says, and put an ambiguous dictum in 
its place.  (Weird; like the inverse of “painting over rot”; it is taking sound 
wood and somehow painting rot over it).

Now, if there were not a sophisticated enough system to put compliant apparatchiks 
in a very broad swath of lower courts, lawmaking houses, etc., that ambiguation 
would do limited good.  But when money is very concentrated, communication very 
modern, and markets very very efficient in centralizing power, and there are a few 
decades to work, that kind of broad installation of corrupt actors can get done.  
There is enough machinery in place to micro-manage them if needed (amicus briefs or 
even individual threat and bribery), but there probably are enough collaborators 
that a lot of the micro-managing isn’t even needed.  It’s like a system of 
“alternative laws" (next term for KAC to coin) that mostly don’t need to be 
enforced if a few occasions serve to keep the precedent live in people’s minds.

So in New York or Washington the cases will be weakened by picking around the 
edges, but in florida cannon can just throw it all out, and know her family 
will remain safe (and maybe even her personal beliefs will be followed; who 
knows re. that).

Likewise bible teaching in schools, banniing of abortifacients and eventually 
contraceptives through the mail within their territory, and so on.

Because I have to (as the only form of employment I am for the moment holding) 
unfortunately do a lot of flying back and forth, I am aware what a nuisance it 
is to have Russian airspace unavailable.  11 time zones.  I wonder when the 
various red-captured states will start to declare their airspace off limits to 
alrlines that fly between the coasts.  LIke, flights from NY to CA would have 
to go through Canada.  Given the great circle already, that wouldn’t be such a 
big deal.  But maybe flights from Mexico or S. America to non-theocratic states 
would suffer some added cost.

Eric

p.s.  I have to note how much my use of terminology has been modified by 
Arendt’s way of grouping things, and there are emails I sent once that I would 
not send now (or would have to word differently).  Not that I have the ability 
to know whether her system is a good one, only that I can follow it and see 
that it is very different from the offhand one I have used and usually see 
used.  So for instance, she would not call the Nazis “Fascists”; they were 
distinct at the time and stay so in her terms.  She also distinguishes mere 
authoritarians from totalitarians, as part of a larger distinction between 
“parties” and “movements”.  In her system, “parties” seek to control the state, 
on behalf of particular interests, in contrasts to “movements” which seek to 
destroy it.  So the Fascists were fundamentally still a party-type 
organization; only the Nazis and the Bolsheviks were real movements.  And the 
Nazis and Bolsheviks saw each other as true peers, and looked with contempt on 
the mere Fascists.  Much follows from that distinction.  Authoritarians have 
stable goals, even if not overtly admidded outside those running them; 
movements need not have any particular goals, save to keep the movement moving, 
so becoming more fluid and cult-like over time — one reads about the 
supervention of the SA by the SS and then the conuous invention of new inner 
layers within the SS, each more detached from specific skills than the ones 
before — until they collapse because they aren’t really organized around 
getting anything particular done.  She argues that the parties and the 
movements co-travel early on, and that the parties fail to recognize the 
difference in what they are dealing with, until eventually they get eaten up 
and didn’t see it coming.  When I read or hear Stuart Stevens I have a strong 
sense of that.  All that reads very comfortably with the situation at the 
moment.  It’s odd; a bad analogy: I think of disregulated cell populations pre- 
and post-metastasis.  The authoritarian parties are mere tumors, taking up 
residence within the normal rules of organ development.  The movements spread 
to everything, and eventually undermine all rules except their own.  Most of 
the educated, luxuried, bribed, etc. operators now are still party-men.  
scotus, the non-MTG-type elected officials, and such. The movement characters 
are a different category.  MTG is just the front wave of cannon-fodder for 
them, and trump is too unfocused (or am I wrong; is he focused-enough on one 
goal?) to really be a longer-term builder of anything (though not by too much). 
 I am not yet seeing who has the combination of delusion and focus to fill the 
Hitler or Stalin role.  But the social structure seems to have laid out the 
throne, and we try to figure out who occupies it and for how long.

On Jul 1, 2024, at 11:58 PM, glen <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.theguardian.
c
om%2fus-news%2flive%2f2024%2fjul%2f01%2fsupreme-court-trump-immunity
-
claim-decision-updates%23top-of-blog&c=E,1,HjPSPMDt8Wf8_2t6B5NRgPS6e
Q
oM9ERREUVJg7-qQgIoTykx-HMc4-VJ15LWXlArv7k86lDYDmnX0_MAvUEwQTGSEpHEsh
T
JjBa28-h5oxQZa8k,&typo=1

Anyone care to take a stab at explaining why the ruling doesn't simply kick the 
can down the road a bit? I mean, how could (say) hiding secret documents, riot 
incitation at a campaign event, etc. be considered official acts of the Office 
of the President? I suppose I can see some of the evidence being thrown out, 
like claims about POTUS not getting involved in protecting the Capitol 
building. But is this ruling really that damaging to the prosecution's case?



--
ꙮ Mɥǝu ǝlǝdɥɐuʇs ɟᴉƃɥʇ' ʇɥǝ ƃɹɐss snɟɟǝɹs˙ ꙮ
-. --- - / ...- .- .-.. .. -.. / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. .
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe   /   Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom 
https://bit.ly/virtualfriam
to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/
archives:  5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/
 1/2003 thru 6/2021  http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/

Reply via email to