Eric, It's a dead pigeon that we throw out the window. I wouldnt waste a perfectly good dead duck on such an experiment.
I cant decide if the dead pigeon is the limit of behavior or if is behavior. I think it is behavior. I think that behaviorism is a way carving the world into objects and environments (ahem) and that rocks behave. Then the distinction beween rocks and organisms would emerge as a distinction between objeccts that manage their environments and objects that dont. n On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 7:07 PM Eric Charles <[email protected]> wrote: > Jon, > This is a great expansion of the issue, and it might take me a bit to > build up to an adequate response. > > You are definitely right that "scale" is one of many dimensions we might > look at when evaluating whether or not something is a behavior. The > evaluation of whether or not something is behaving involves comparisons, > and those comparisons have to be "fair" in some sense that suggests a > "domain". For example, if we drop a dead duck out a window, and then agree > that falling in that fashion does not evidence behavior, we wouldn't want > to then move to a coin-drop in water (where the coin spins and slides > erratically, moving down at various speeds) and assert the coin was alive > because it's movement didn't look like the dead-duck's movement. > > Does that get us anywhere? > > > ----------- > Eric P. Charles, Ph.D. > Department of Justice - Personnel Psychologist > American University - Adjunct Instructor > <[email protected]> > > > On Tue, May 12, 2020 at 12:58 PM Jon Zingale <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Glen, Eric, >> >> I am enjoying how the conversation is developing. The celery >> example strikes me as being important, but where Glen refers >> to *scale* I would speak of *domain of definition*. That a shift in >> domain happens to be size, rather than some other contextual >> specification, may not be what we want. If this isn't the case >> Glen, please let me know. With respect to Eric's points it seems >> fair to me to say that a paddle wheel is behaving, but perhaps not >> in the *larger* context of the river. The celery is behaving, but not >> not in the *smaller* context of capillary action. Here I am using >> the language of *large* and *small*, but perhaps other modalities >> have a place as well. One can say Nick's behavior appears >> spontaneously, but in fact was necessitated by something *prior*. >> Here an *earlier* Nick could play the role of the river. >> >> Frank, >> Would you say that the mind is as public as RSA encryption? >> .-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ... >> .... . ... >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam >> unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com >> archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >> FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ >> > .-. .- -. -.. --- -- -..-. -.. --- - ... -..-. .- -. -.. -..-. -.. .- ... > .... . ... > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > -- Nicholas S. Thompson Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Ethology Clark University [email protected] https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson
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