I certainly do not disagree with your main point: metaphor is a tool. However, I might ask, if all your food is stored in metal cans, might a can opener, a mere tool, be an important, even essential, tool? I think that this is Quine's point re: the fringe of science.
davew On Mon, Mar 16, 2026, at 6:57 PM, glen wrote: > I suppose it depends on the structure of the space. If all roads lead > to Rome, then it doesn't matter. Any set of lies will do just fine. But > if it's pathological, then hopping roads is a necessary skill. I make > no claims to that metaphysical knowledge. I'm only pointing out that > metaphor is a neutral tool, not something to be ogled in awe. Metaphor > is no more nor less fascinating than, say, a spatula. If I had a friend > who constantly yapped about how cool their spatula was ... and every > conversation wound down to spatula this and spatula that, I'd have to > push back a bit and say that not everything's about your spatula. > Please talk about something else. > > Whether the spatula is used for ill or good depends on the wielder. > > On 3/16/26 12:16 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> Different canals could be in frustration, so I suppose it isn’t quite as bad >> as you say? >> >> *From: *Friam <[email protected]> on behalf of glen >> <[email protected]> >> *Date: *Monday, March 16, 2026 at 11:45 AM >> *To: *[email protected] <[email protected]> >> *Subject: *Re: [FRIAM] A bold meteorological theory >> >> I don't see how that could be true. At best, metaphor is a means to keep one >> in a canal *and* a means of escaping a canal. And that it's both means >> neither usage is a property of metaphor. I think it's better to state that >> metaphor is a means of escaping *reality* ... to say things that are not >> true ... lying, falsehood. >> >> Of course, some lies/falsehoods can be good. When a science popularizer lies >> about, say, entanglement in order to provide *some* type of intuition the >> laity demands ... maybe that's a good thing. The liar may justify their lies >> in claiming that lie set A is "better" than lie set B. (Or maybe it's a bad >> thing.) But metaphor is a liar's tool. Attempts to rehabilitate it are the >> essence of postmodernism (at least as *that* concept is bastardized by the >> laity). >> >> Of course, those of us who are OK with being called a _liar_ have no problem >> with this. But there are those amongst us who blanch at being called a liar >> even as they lie, the epitome of Bad Faith, reflective or not. >> >> On 3/16/26 11:04 AM, Prof David West wrote: >>> Metaphorically stated, unfortunately: a metaphor is just a means for >>> escaping local minima and channelization. >>> >>> davew >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Mar 16, 2026, at 8:55 AM, glen wrote: >>>> That's some good advice, there. Narratives like the naked Emperor are >>>> crucial tools for posers and con men. Each and every metaphor you >>>> identify in a missive is evidence of the authors' (plural possessive - >>>> no such thing as a sole author) Bad Faith. And the number of metaphors >>>> is directly correlated with the extent of the Bad Faith. >>>> >>>> None of us are innocent. None of us are the child in the narrative. >>>> It's a venomous fiction, injected by the fangs of the storyteller. Even >>>> literal babies bring along their own "genetic memory", in utero >>>> accretion, biases, and expertise. The story, that story and all others, >>>> is there to persuade, to trick you, to canalize you into thinking in >>>> some particular set of ways. >>>> >>>> Now I'd like you to stop thinking about elephants. >>>> >>>> On 3/15/26 10:17 AM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: >>>>> Perhaps I should just drop the metaphor and speak to the beliefs the >>>>> metaphor represents to me. Expertise both sights and blinds us; great >>>>> expertise sights and blinds us greatly. >>>> -- > -- > ¡sıɹƎ ןıɐH ⊥ ɐןןǝdoɹ ǝ uǝןƃ > ὅτε oi μὲν ἄλλοι κύνες τοὺς ἐχϑροὺς δάκνουσιν, ἐγὰ δὲ τοὺς φίλους, ἵνα σώσω. > > > > .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. > / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
