Well like man what happened to..well like...back in the 90s we were raised...as lachkey kids _dad_(other than his...questionable just IMO IMO...smart dude blah blah but well he seems better now) ;P Two things my damn neer 50 year old brain can't fathom and doesn't think is. Well for want of a better word healthy. Massive AdvertCompany (Alphabet) going full send Zigzag corp/EmberallCorp/Pentex (geek badge if you know them from the World of Darkness)/OmniConsumer corp etc etc. So the good side of the 90s lots of companies that by virtue of either toxic the the semi useful kind of nasrcisms and male hormones where companies going at meant that there was (a small) inherent guardrail we don't have that we have Proton, Outlook, and Google.. My brain does a bevis and buthead: uh er uh uh hehe yeah yeah this like uh bad 'n stuff. It's especially just...evil when one of those companies sure seems to be kind of like this I ask: ok so what happens if Just need a (good ol'fationed) password reset because the one I used: isn't working (forgotten say): in my brain? there is no reason at all for the first step to be: ok click this link. we'll first try something basic normal and standard., then offer 99 other things to do. And then there's google. and the search results are just...terrible.
My current experience has me just...like it makes me want to screem or go full ECW and or WWF on them. Who in there right mind sets up a website without accounting for things going wrong, and having a life-preserver every step of the way. Now: Ai is potentially amazing..then there's googles RnD to enshitify it before it's even a toddler. So I thought: since people were saying what's new. I like man I'm serius! why not? I can even make a github repo, if someone kind stranger can help me be a dad. Maybe someone can be mom for it? Anyone know how to turn terrible TKL/TK into Rust in the web? I'll see if I can an% run getting good with rust or something to give it a chance having really nice solid foundation of excelence. On Fri, Jul 24, 2026 at 2:46 PM glen <[email protected]> wrote: > Oh! And for search? I've switched to a localhost installation of > https://docs.searxng.org/ I've thought about putting one up on a domain > name. But do I really care? No, prolly not. I have one on the laptop. On > the phone in the hotel, it goes to the laptop. The phone at home goes to my > home searxng server. Out and about? DDG is adequate. > > On 7/24/26 1:39 PM, glen wrote: > > Well, I'm not that kind of software person. And I'm a big fan of paying > professionals to do what they're good at ... which means I get to make fun > of a lot of my do-it-yourself friends when they, e.g. screw up the > foundation of their garage because they insisted on pouring it themselves > rather than hire someone who knows what they're doing. > > > > So a friend of mine switched to Proton. But I feel like they're a bit > over-hyped. So I went with https://posteo.de/en. > > > > But in the process of degoogling (still in it, I guess -- you see the > From: field above of course) I've also found that https://murena.com/ and > the https://e.foundation/e-os/ ecosystem is pretty damned good. So I > pulled out my old Teracube 2e, installed e/os and viola! No more google. > > > > 2 caveats: No android auto and no good Maps solution. Auto? Who cares? I > have a nav system in the truck and I can stick my phone to the windshield. > But maps is an issue. I've long had an openstreetmap.org account. So I > went with https://codeberg.org/comaps/comaps. It's working well enough, I > guess. E/os promises they're coming out with both an auto and maps, fwiw. > > > > On 7/24/26 1:08 PM, Gillian Densmore wrote: > >> ask and ye shall receive > >> > >> Ok. since you guys want something to talk about and something that has > real world impact, time to wake up samurai. > >> I for one hate googles guts: > >> > >> Here is me trying to just routinely log into a email: > >> https://dropr.co/v/52938b11 <https://dropr.co/v/52938b11> > >> > >> > >> https://streamable.com/dry2of <https://streamable.com/dry2of> > >> > >> > >> Since you at the time of that email were bored. > >> Then how about this: > >> Build the better email? > >> Since google has grown to big and arrogant. I don't want the email of > the future, how about putting your fancy degrees to good use then, lets > make a ourselves email that's not complete ass and owned by a pathetic > little ai-bro shit. Make the company where shit just fucking works, with > kick fucking ass stuff and actuall fucking humans in the loop, You folks > said your bored and claimed to have a lot of time: > >> -> Any of you folks have experience with unfucking your email from > these shitforbrains? > >> ->and since you said you have lots of time: lets build, maintain, and > make go viral the starts of new company to do all the stuff google claims > to do, yet utterly fails to deliver on mostly making shovelware, and > enshitifying there email. So instead of enshitification and contributing to > 2026 bein a dick ramed into peoples asses: make a company puts up where > those motherfuckers need to stfu. > >> > >> Can start with what'd be small fries for you: email and mass storage, > basic email that's extremely back to basics... I won't suggest going > alltheway back to POP that might be a bit to back to basics. Start with > imap, then build based on correctness and look at googles mistakes and > where they suck ass I mean I for one think there aidsinfestedly terrible at > having protection vs woopsies: from email landing in the blast radius of > the latest internet wyrm ungodly amounts of spam, I don't know about ya'all > but my spam box routinely saturated with junk. surely your big bored brains > can do better. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Jul 16, 2026 at 9:55 AM glen <[email protected] <mailto: > [email protected]>> wrote: > >> > >> Yes, the way the active inference people (in particular - much less > so than the predictive processing people) write/talk is either simply very > dense *or* laden with bias. > >> > >> But re: your cross-trophy (?) comment - I can't help but think > we're a lot more like octupusses than we want to admit. Each anatomical > region of the brain might be thought of as a semi-independent ganglion. And > maybe it just so happens our ganglia are clustered in our head/CNS for > convenience or some sort of energy minimization ... or maybe risk > minimization (which is why the meningeal lymphatic architecture paper was > included in my list). Sure, *some* newer regions may only be 'efficient' > because our ganglia are co-located. But we might also be able to smear > those out, distribute them through (an artificial) organism with other > pathways. > >> > >> Anyway, my point is that if we thought of these > subnetworks/circuits as separate ganglia that could have been located > closer to the sensorimotor manifold they manage, then interoception > kindasorta reduces away. > >> > >> On 7/11/26 3:33 PM, Eric Charles wrote: > >> > I skimmed the predictive processing chapter. My main thought was > wondering if it still seemed interesting if translated into less jargon-ey > English. > >> > > >> > My second thought was: Doesn't Gibson help with this? Isn't the > "loop" problem a "problem" at least in part because you are trying to find > the loops inside the organism instead of in the larger organism-environment > system? > >> > > >> > /If/ there is specification in the ambient energy, /then /the > loop can extend outside the organism, and exist at whatever scale the > relevant patterns exist at. Yes, you need sufficient neuronal support for > the organism to do their part of the loop... at least with us very-neuronal > organisms... but that type of "complexity" is different than the complexity > one might imagine if they thought _all_ the work had to happen inside the > head. For example, recognizing that one is accelerating towards the ground > --- because the rate of optic expansion is accelerating --- could be much > easier than trying to "predict" whether one is accelerating towards the > ground by comparing a series of snapshot images and trying to neuronally > create an internal model of everything happening around you. You can > offload most of that by not trying to "model" things that are directly > perceivable. And that can extend as far as we can extend "perceivable." > >> > > >> > Re the first thought.... Here is a quote: > >> > > >> > The second type of predictive circuitmight support the > sequencing and arbitration of behaviors. Simple solutions to these > problemsmight appeal to generative models for sequential dynamics (Parr > et al., 2023). For example, locomotion behavior in C. elegans might be > supported by sequential generativemodels that encode expected transitions > among locomotion behaviors(e.g., forward and backward movements, left and > right turns), with decision points corresponding to bifurcations in the > dynamical sequences (Kato et al., 2015). In turn, the transitions > prioritized at bifurcation points might depend partially on external > sensation and partially on internal (e.g., interoceptive) sensations > reporting impending drives and needs, which leads us to the next point. > >> > > >> > > >> > So far as I can tell, that means something like: > >> > > >> > A second thing well-developed neuron clumps do is ensure > movements happen in order, so as to form coherent "behaviors." We can > understand how this happens in several ways, some of which Ph.D.-level > scientists call "simple." Roundworms, for example, swim in predictable > ways, sometimes changing direction. Those turns sometimes depend on > external factors, at least in part. > >> > > >> > > >> > Seriously... this might be my weird form of getting old and > yelling at kids to get off my lawn... but... Ugh... A lot of that might as > well be pretentious continental philosophers stringing jargon together. > "The epoch of the logos thus debases writing considered as mediation of > mediation and as a fall into the exteriority of meaning. To this epoch > belongs the difference between signified and signifier, or at least the > strange separation of their 'parallelism,' and the exteriority, however > extenuated, of the one to the other." Orwell could take at least half the > sentences as examples of bad writing, and not be wrong. Even in my attempt > at a translation, the word "ensure" is highly suspect. > >> > > >> > Best, > >> > Eric > >> > > >> > <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > >> > > >> > > >> > On Tue, Jul 7, 2026 at 10:35 AM glen <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto: > [email protected]>>> wrote: > >> > > >> > Of course. You have a knack for pushing my buttons. 8^D > >> > > >> > What irritates me about all this active inference and > predictive processing advocacy [⛧] is well-represented in the title of that > chapter "From Sensorimotor Skills to Higher Cognition". [grrrr] The reason > I took the time to download it and start skimming it was my hope for a > thorough *composition* from the very small-fast feedback loops to the > large-slow ones. There are a lot of citations. So maybe the clues are in > there. But I'm lazy. > >> > > >> > What I *want* ... what I really really want is evidence of > predictive processing in a minimal model organism like C. Elegans or > Drosophilia. Such exist [1-5]! But now we need something like connectome > (or simpler?) circuits in more complex organisms that show how small-fast > predictive processing composes into large-slow predictive processing. Does > the model work at *all* scales? Only some scales? Is it like a percolating > stew of predictions, some of which are suppressed by the larger circuits? > >> > > >> > Speaking of which, I discovered this book just last night: > >> > > >> > > https://bookshop.org/p/books/from-human-reasoning-to-belief-an-empirical-account-joshua-mugg/de6c8394b4e24d99?ean=9781032736952 > < > https://bookshop.org/p/books/from-human-reasoning-to-belief-an-empirical-account-joshua-mugg/de6c8394b4e24d99?ean=9781032736952> > < > https://bookshop.org/p/books/from-human-reasoning-to-belief-an-empirical-account-joshua-mugg/de6c8394b4e24d99?ean=9781032736952 > < > https://bookshop.org/p/books/from-human-reasoning-to-belief-an-empirical-account-joshua-mugg/de6c8394b4e24d99?ean=9781032736952 > >> > >> > > >> > But as always, it's silly to keep buying books I'll never > read. I post it here in the hopes that you readers out there might read it > and tell me what it says ... or maybe I'll buy the epub and feed it to > Claude ... or maybe it's read it already? I haven't checked. You'll > remember we've had such arguments before, when you claimed I *must* believe > in the floor in order to get out of bed in the morning. And my counter was > that it is my *doubt* about the existence of the floor that allows me to > get out of bed. IDK if Mugg's "DJ mixing board" model fits one of our > stances better. But I do like it better than the overly simplistic fast vs > slow thinking model. > >> > > >> > > >> > [1] Dimakou A, Pezzulo G, Zangrossi A, Corbetta M. The > predictive nature of spontaneous brain activity across scales and species. > Neuron. Published online March 1, 2025. doi:10.1016/j.neuron.2025.02.009 > >> > [2] Kaplan H, Nichols A, Zimmer M. Sensorimotor integration > in Caenorhabditis elegans: a reappraisal towards dynamic and distributed > computations. Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B: Biological > Sciences. 2018;373. doi:10.1098/rstb.2017.0371 > >> > [3] Kim A, Fitzgerald J, Maimon G. Cellular evidence for > efference copy in Drosophila visuomotor processing. Nature neuroscience. > 2015;18:1247-1255. doi:10.1038/nn.4083 > >> > [4] Lin A, Witvliet D, Hernandez-Nunez L, Linderman S, > Samuel A, Venkatachalam V. Imaging whole-brain activity to understand > behavior. Nature reviews Physics. 2022;4:292-305. > doi:10.1038/s42254-022-00430-w > >> > [5] Wang S, Segev I, Borst A, Palmer S. Maximally efficient > prediction in the early fly visual system may support evasive flight > maneuvers. PLoS Computational Biology. 2019;17. > doi:10.1371/journal.pcbi.1008965 > >> > > >> > > >> > [⛧] It seems to me that most of the peri-Friston work > borders on advocacy of the model(s) as opposed to challenging them. But I'm > not a scholar. So my scope is very small. > >> > > >> > On 7/6/26 8:15 PM, Nicholas Thompson wrote: > >> > > Hi, Glen, > >> > > > >> > > I liked the predictive processing thing. It coheres with > an idea I have been kicking around of late. People tend to think of > cognitive processes as putting us in touch with the world as it is. > Then we look at that represented world and make decisions about the > future. Wouldn't it make more sense for cognitive processes to put us in > touch with the world as it is going to be? To translate that back into > monist talk, we live in a world of successive anticipations. As I get > more frail, I become aware of all the hard work my cerebellum must be doing > to anticipate the consequences of any action I might take that changes my > center of gravity. A delayed prediction can lead to my taking actions that > compound a balance prediction and send me to the floor. it's like I am > doing judo to myself. > >> > > > >> > > Is that annoying enough to feed the beast? > >> > > > >> > > Nick > >> > > > >> > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2026 at 6:31 PM glen <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto: > [email protected]>> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto: > [email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto: > [email protected]>>>> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > It's so dead, here, I figure it can't hurt to post > arbitrary nonsense I've run across lately: > >> > > > >> > > Meningeal lymphatic architecture and drainage > dynamics surrounding the human middle meningeal artery > >> > > https://doi.org/10.1016/j.isci.2025.113693 < > https://doi.org/10.1016/j.isci.2025.113693> < > https://doi.org/10.1016/j.isci.2025.113693 < > https://doi.org/10.1016/j.isci.2025.113693>> < > https://doi.org/10.1016/j.isci.2025.113693 < > https://doi.org/10.1016/j.isci.2025.113693> < > https://doi.org/10.1016/j.isci.2025.113693 < > https://doi.org/10.1016/j.isci.2025.113693>>> > >> > > > >> > > Constructing a lower-bound estimate of the global > number of insect species on a hyperdiverse empirical foundation > >> > > https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2524283123 < > https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2524283123> < > https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2524283123 < > https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2524283123>> < > https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2524283123 < > https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2524283123> < > https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2524283123 < > https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2524283123>>> > >> > > > >> > > Predictive Processing: From Sensorimotor Skills to > Higher Cognition > >> > > https://doi.org/10.7551/mitpress/15999.003.0011 < > https://doi.org/10.7551/mitpress/15999.003.0011> < > https://doi.org/10.7551/mitpress/15999.003.0011 < > https://doi.org/10.7551/mitpress/15999.003.0011>> < > https://doi.org/10.7551/mitpress/15999.003.0011 < > https://doi.org/10.7551/mitpress/15999.003.0011> < > https://doi.org/10.7551/mitpress/15999.003.0011 < > https://doi.org/10.7551/mitpress/15999.003.0011>>> > >> > > > >> > > As always, I'm reading them in fitful bursts, > interleaved across each other and all the other open tabs and crap strewn > about my desk. So .... grain of salt and all. > >> > > > >> > >> > > > > -- > 8647 ⊥ ɐןןǝdoɹ ǝ uǝןƃ > ὅτε oi μὲν ἄλλοι κύνες τοὺς ἐχϑροὺς δάκνουσιν, ἐγὰ δὲ τοὺς φίλους, ἵνα > σώσω. > > > .- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / > ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom > https://bit.ly/virtualfriam > to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: 5/2017 thru present > https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ > 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/ >
.- .-.. .-.. / ..-. --- --- - . .-. ... / .- .-. . / .-- .-. --- -. --. / ... --- -- . / .- .-. . / ..- ... . ..-. ..- .-.. FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Fridays 9a-12p Friday St. Johns Cafe / Thursdays 9a-12p Zoom https://bit.ly/virtualfriam to (un)subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: 5/2017 thru present https://redfish.com/pipermail/friam_redfish.com/ 1/2003 thru 6/2021 http://friam.383.s1.nabble.com/
