On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 1:39 AM, Michel Hermier <[email protected]> wrote: >> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Michel Hermier <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>>> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 5:05 AM, Michel Hermier <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>>> On Sun, May 29, 2011 at 06:10:51PM +0300, Marius Cirsta >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> This in turn causes phonon to not work and fail when KDE or KDE apps >>>>>>> try to play sound through it. One unfortunate side effect of this is >>>>>>> bug FS#4423 where shutdown and restart fail in KDE because of this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A default backend must be present for phonon to work and I've chosen >>>>>>> the xine one as it was the first one on Unix and is more stable. >>>>>>> Added >>>>>>> it asa rodepends to avoid a circular dependency issue. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Attached is the git patch. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> P.S. Michel I apologize for cc-ing you but I thought it might be of >>>>>>> interest as we've talked about this before. >>>>>> >>>>>> Actually you did not CC him. :) >>>>>> >>>>>> I agree with the patch in general, thanks for doing it. Two concerns: >>>>>> >>>>>> - Michel, can you please ACK this patch? IIRC last time you mentioned >>>>>> you're rather fix KDE's code to handle missing phonon backends >>>>>> gracefully. That sounds fine to me as well, of you have a patch >>>>>> (since >>>>>> Marius *has* a patch.) >>>>> >>>>> This is not the complicated part, this is the easy fix, and I don't >>>>> like >>>>> it. >>>>> I really need to take so time to investigate this issue... before I >>>>> take >>>>> a >>>>> real decisions. >>>>> >>>>>> - Before applying it, phonon-backend-xine should be moved to main to >>>>>> prevent testsuite breakage. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> So what do you have against this fix ? And what other plan do you >>>> have to fix the fact that phonon does indeed need a backend and it >>>> simply won't work without one? That's the way it was designed. Even >>>> if we do manage to get everything to work properly it won't play any >>>> sound without a backend. >>>> >>>> Normally I'd have nothing against taking time to analyze the >>>> situation and find a fix but the fact is that FS#4423 has been open >>>> for almost 4 months now , with no fix , nothing. >>>> >>>> Can't we just fix it this way for now ? There's no reason a better >>>> fix can't be added at a later date. Also if there's something >>>> seriously wrong with this fix we'll have time to spot the problems >>>> before the stable release. >>> >>> I attached a patched version of phonon to the bug, please test with and >>> without phonon backend (I dead a preliminary test and it seems to works >>> for me). >>> After that is fixed I'll think about the possibility to add a default >>> backend in some way. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Frugalware-devel mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://frugalware.org/mailman/listinfo/frugalware-devel >>> >> >> OK, I've tested it and that bug is indeed fixed. >> >> But then I went to Sytem Settings , Multimedia , Phonon ... that >> crashes. Normally here you are able to see the Phonon backends and >> choose your preference if you really prefer some Phonon backend more >> than the other. With not backend at all it just crashes , a bug in KDE >> I agree but nobody thought you'd have none available. > > I think you don't understand my POV as packager. I don't want to lower > lower and cycle dependecies . Now that this is done, I can look to add a > phonon-backend dependency to one off the kde package. > >> Then I went on to install Amarok ... and play an mp3 file from my >> collection. Well of course it didn't play the mp3. Now that's nice, a >> music player that doesn't really play your mp3 files. No message was >> shown as to what's wrong , nothing to warn the user he needs to >> install a phonon backend or something. > > Obviously, I mean I made it work, not make it good. > >> Now I do understand your point with not forcing a backend to a user >> but that's the way most if not all distros handle it. Kubuntu uses the >> gstreamer one by default and they've had some problems with it. >> The thing is they're not all mature and fully working, what if a user >> chooses the VLC backend and that fails ? > > From what said ealier, I'll probably choose xine backend as this for kde. > (Thought I would prefer that a pulseaudio backend shows up) > >> There are many other packages where a default has to be chosen, >> Gnash has the ability to use ffmpeg or gstreamer. I think the >> Frugalware package just chooses gstreamer and that's that. Sure, >> giving the users the power to choose is nice but many don't know or >> care what Phonon is or what backend they want to use. I remember being >> presented with such a choice in Mandriva once. Do you want to use A or >> B , the thing is I had no idea what the difference between A and B was >> I didn't really give a ... damn. >> >> We could introduce cool USE flags and make Frugalware like Gentoo , >> then we'll have a 100 or so page manual which you need to read for >> your distro to work. I mean after all why force an Akonadi backend on >> people , maybe they'd like to use the mysql one instead of sqlite. Or >> maybe they don't care and just want it to work ? >> >> The way I see it if someone really cares that much about their phonon >> backend they can just install another one and go to System Settings >> and set that one and that's that. We can put that in the wiki or maybe >> inform then through a post install/upgrade message. The xine Phonon >> backend was installed by default , if you want you can install ....vlc >> or ....gstreamer backends ( pacman-g2 -S ... or pacman-g2 -S .... ) >> and then use System Settings , Multimedia to choose. >> >> It's normal for a distro like Frugalware to have a certain control as >> to what users have installed by default in my opinion. Just imagine if >> for each of these choices we give users the option to choose, we might >> end up with hundreds of different configurations and then you'd have a >> bug that Amarok crashed for user x but he's using the VLC backend and >> that special version of QT and ... >> >> That's the way I see this problem but if you insist with not having a >> default backend automatically chosen then yes we can go and complicate >> things to give users a freedom of choice they might not even want or >> need. > > You went on fire and didn't understood my motivations, calm down and > rethink ;) > > _______________________________________________ > Frugalware-devel mailing list > [email protected] > http://frugalware.org/mailman/listinfo/frugalware-devel >
I'm sorry, I just feel we're complicating this more than needed, that's all. I just want it to work .... And yes, I don't really understand your motivations but I do appreciate your work for KDE in Frugalware and you've made good comments to the Akonadi issue. This I don't really understand though. Pulseaudio just won't do because it's not a valid backend. Phonon needs something that knows how to play an mp3 or an ogg for instance and Pulseaudio just can't handle that. As evidence it's not valid , System Settings configuration for Phonon crashes ... And I'm sorry if I went on fire. I just felt you're being stubborn about this which happens to me sometimes too , to be honest :). I uderstant we all have our ideas and I'm trying to uderstand your point of view but I don't really get it. If you want you can push the fix , it at least makes KDE shut down but we should open another bug to keep track of the fact that phonon doesn't have a working default backend. Anyway I just hope you find a solution to get Phonon to play sounds and all. And if it's better than my simple fix to just add the xine backend as a dependency all the better. _______________________________________________ Frugalware-devel mailing list [email protected] http://frugalware.org/mailman/listinfo/frugalware-devel
