An interesting contribution too your cathedral and bazaar topic from another list (skeptic) Eva ... In the world of open software, there is a comparison made between the cathedral and the bazaar (this is Eric Raymond's original paper). The cathedral represents the big software houses, producing large complex systems that are closed boxes---trust us it works. The bazaar, by contrast, is a shouting, bickering mass of individual workers who together subject the code to review, correction and expansion based on their own needs. Raymond argues that the bazaar is the better way to write bug-free code, even though it seems more chaotic. In reality, very little open software with a significant user base was developed by the bazaar. Instead, there is a central core that maintain some control over the chaos. They let the market of programmers bicker and complain, and search and correct and write, but then take the results and exercising some quality and artistic control incorporate it into official releases. This is Eric Allman's (author of sendmail) idea, and it applies not just to sendmail, but to Apache websever, Linux, gcc and emacs, ghostscript, TeX, and so on. So, in the age of amateurs the most successful projects will likewise have technical and artistic visionaries who coordinate (or just take advantage) of the enthusiastic volunteers. Amatuer astronomy projects have that quality, where national organizations collect and confirm data, and issue pamphlets on how to observe. Same for other amateur science projects. When we open the floodgates and let everybody join, there will be chaos. Not everybody will make worthwhile contributions, and there will be much junk out there. But, that's a side effect of the process. As more successful amateur projects are developed, as professionals see the power of thousands of supporters helping, more and more applications of the model will appear. At least, that's the horse I'm betting on. Regarding the ``dumbing down'' of a technology. Sorry Dave, but to me that is *good*. Damn good, it opens the technology up to more people who have better things to do with their time then decode some programmer's brain-dead notions of ``user friendly.'' Consumers of software products have been very poorly served by our industry. There will always be plenty of jobs for those who do want to understand all the shifts and jumps of coding, and how to make things easy. Better, the easier the end product, the more demand for those who can make it easy. Welcome to the (17 months and counting) 21st century. :-) Mike -- Michael D. Sofka [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] CIS/SSS Sr. Systems Programmer AFS/DFS, email, listproc, TeX, epistemology. Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy, NY. http://www.rpi.edu/~sofkam/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]