We know a little bit about countries being ruled with an iron fist as well.
REH ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 3:24 PM Subject: RE: US not an Empire (was Re: [Futurework] Will Bush become a Shi a Moslem? Glass half-full or glass half empty? > Ed is correct on this one. > > Hussein, like Tito and Stalin ran his country with an iron fist. Only when > they are gone does one appreciate the strength of their rule (and the > brutality that must have always been overt or covert). > > arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ed Weick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2003 10:54 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: US not an Empire (was Re: [Futurework] Will Bush become a > Shia Moslem? Glass half-full or glass half empty? > > > Lawry: > > > Well, Ed, I think we will continue to disagree on this one. The killing in > > Najaf was CAUSED by our presence there. Our presence in Iraq is polarizing > > the Iraqis (though few to "our" side. The target of the Najaf attack was > the > > senior cleric who joined the US-created Iraq council. > > Lawry, what I have to point out is that the US chose to be there, and now > that it is there, it has to do something beyond destroy a country and walk > out. Yes, indeed, the US has many supporters in Iraq, but it also stirred > up a hornets nest. That should have been considered before it went in. > > > You use metaphors, like 'see it through' that sound positive but gloss > over > > the real dynamics. In Vietnam, it was 'a light at the end of the tunnel', > > and many other such false but comforting pieties. > > I'd suggest that there's no comparison between Iraq and Vietnam. In > Vietnam, the US was opposing a force that was trying to clean the country of > corruption and provide stable, if ideologically based, government. The US > had to withdraw because it lost that war. It could not win. The opposition > was simply too popular and too powerful. In Iraq, there was no unified > opposition. There were a number of factions that crumbled in the face of US > military action. What you have now is a conquered state in which various > factions have little common ground other than wanting to settle grievances > among themselves and frustrate their conquerors. > > > Have you given real thought to just what it means to 'see it through', and > > whether it is at all possible, and how much it will cost us in terms of > > money, lives (US and Iraqi), international credibility, domestic politics, > > etc? How many US and Vietnamese lives were lost in Vietnam, and how many > > maimed? Do you know what the impact of Vietnam was on the US economy and > > domestic programs? Is this kind of toll acceptable to you? > > Yes, I've given this some thought, and I very much regret to say that the US > administration should have given it much more thought before it went to war > on Iraq. If there is anything good one can say about Saddam Husain and the > Baathists it that they they managed to maintain control over a very > difficult and disparate country, even if this meant a violation of many > things we consider humane. What the US has to recognize is that it has > taken the lid off something of a seething cauldron. Having done that, it > has to be prepared to hang in until the place settles down into something > that is at least halfway peaceful and governable. Simply withdrawing and > going home is not an option. It may take a decade, perhaps two, perhaps > even longer. Is the US prepared to put its money where its mouth is? > > Regards, Ed > > > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework > _______________________________________________ > Futurework mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework _______________________________________________ Futurework mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://scribe.uwaterloo.ca/mailman/listinfo/futurework
