On the whole, I felt pretty good about them, as long as they stayed where they were.  Ed Weick.
 
Wow!
 
REH
 
I don't think they would have fit up here, Ray.  The message was very powerful, and we're not used to that.  They were a response to, and outgrowth, of Brazilian mass culture which, as I'm sure you know, has strong African, Portuguese and Amerindian blendings in it.  We'd enjoy their music, which is deeply moving, but the message would probably not work with us.

Ed
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Futurework] social trends: Tolerance (was Profanity)

On the whole, I felt pretty good about them, as long as they stayed where they were.  Ed Weick.
 
Wow!
 
REH
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Weick
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Futurework] social trends: Tolerance (was Profanity)

I had a brief (month long) encounter with relatively newly "planted" and rapidly growing Baptist churches in Brazil in 1997.  They had a tremendous fervor and energy that you rarely find in churches in Canada and perhaps in the US.  I'm not sure of where it came from, but I think that part of it was a dissatisfaction with Catholicism, which many people identified as serving the interests of the rich and powerful, perhaps with good reason.  Other parts may have been associated with the movement from the country into the huge slums of suburban Sao Paulo.  At least a portion of it, perhaps quite a lot, was a recognition that churches could help people to look after each other and build a common front on social matters. 
 
From the few sermons I heard (translated for me and my fellow Canadian visitors), I gathered that the churches were morally and scripturally far stricter than the church I attend.  They would probably see us as decadent, even fallen.  But I doubt very much that they would want to do very much about it for the time being because they have plenty to do on their home turf.
 
The Brazilian churches were not like the Megachurches that appear on TV.  The latter are supported by the relatively well to do who may believe they can buy their way into Heaven.  The Brazilian churches were more about helping people find scripturally based moral and communal purposes in the present world.  On the whole, I felt pretty good about them, as long as they stayed where they were.
 
Ed
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 11:20 AM
Subject: RE: [Futurework] social trends: Tolerance (was Profanity)

Well, said.  I would like to think that we are a long way from experiencing a serious religious movement in the West a la Taliban (despite my frequently referring to the Religious Right as Taliban in suits).  However, the recent history of the Southern Baptist Convention is a good example of how a small group can take over a larger group and then maneuver it in less than ten years into something altogether different.

 

It’s true, society in general has become more tolerant and by comparison many evangelical Christians appear to be more conservative.  Nevertheless, when the growth factor of these groups is considered you have an instant political base, which the GOP has catered to successfully.  Pat Buchanon made this initial projection and is probably why some in the GOP still give him any respect.  Now he is preaching that privatizing education is the future.

 

Just as Hitler tailored his speeches to a people devastated by defeat and the straight jacket of the Versailles Treaty, a politician or party that convinces a large block of disenchanted, zealous true believers that it is within their power to convert their world for (insert cause here) - well, you see my point.

 

In a monthly publication that comes to my retired parents, I noticed an increase in the use of the word Kingdom to describe Christian families, work, and cultural identification.  Raising Kingdom Families. Finding work to do for the Kingdom.  Setting up estate funds for the Kingdom.  Then look at the Megachurches, new fangled fortresses being built with moats of segregation as they worship, train, exercise and go to the movies together.  There is a real branding being applied. 

 

There is a different nuance about tolerance and intolerance than in decades past.  I also suspect that fundamentalist backlash has a suppressed rage to it in some quarters, much as the California recall has an underlying, simmering resentment for Davis’s signing into law that illegal immigrants could get legal driver’s licenses. 

 

It’s cross-denominational. Don’t forget what Philip Jenkins wrote in The Next Christianity, that the world would be segregated by the more tolerant religious faiths of most of the industrialized nations (Global North) and the less tolerant Early Church conservatism of the Third World (Global South). Note how the conservative Bishop from Africa angrily denounced the recent confirmation of a gay bishop made world headlines.  Note the pope’s health is worsening. Remember the pope has promoted many conservatives from South America and Africa. And they vote in secret, no hanging chads, no paper trail. - KWC

 

Ed wrote: I guess I watch the wrong channels.  I've heard the odd soldier in Iraq or the odd fire fighter in British Columbia use "shit", but that's about all.  I rarely if ever watch sitcoms because I find them contrived and phoney.  Movies perhaps?  I only watch those that I really want to see.  But I do know that porn has moved from something that, a few decades ago, you might get to see in Copenhagen or Stockholm to something that is now universally available and becoming totally available with the internet.

 

What may be happening is a split in western society between those who favour an openess, even if this means the acceptance of profanity, on the one hand and those who favour a tightening down on the other.  The acceptance of abortion and common law and same sex marriages, and the increased tolerance of porn may be examples of the former.  The growth of the religious right and evangelical churches, which attract young as well as older followers, may be examples of the latter.

 

Is this split dangerous for those who believe in constitutionally guaranteed freedoms?  It would seem to depend greatly on the ability of the religious (or even secular) right to get organized into a movement capable of seriously attacking the foundations of such freedoms and influencing legislative and judicial decisions.  Personally, I think we have a long way to go before we are in that position.


Arthur wrote: Swearing and profanity at home or the schoolyard is one thing.  It is quite another when TV and radio ups the ante with simulated sex and lavish use of profanity.  This is a trend that is not self-limiting, it will only be changed (I think) by some form of censorship, probably coming from a religious angle.

 

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