Ed
said,
However, what I think what he
was saying was that serving the individual conscience had to be subservient, and
if necessary bent, to the higher purposes of the state.
arthur
Consider the number of corporate and government managers who have
had to stifle their individual conscience in order to serve the higher purposes
of the corporation/government as they do things they know to be "wrong."
As they are involved in mass firings of people just to add to "stock
values." ie., the bottom line. Eichmann can be seen in organizations
everywhere when the goals of the abstract organizaiton take precedence over the
pain of the individual.
I
wouldn't be too hard on the Germans. A bit too
convenient.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Weick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 11:49 AM
To: Brad McCormick, Ed.D.; futurework
Subject: Re: [Futurework] More myopia and all that ~ looking thru the telescope vs looking in the mirror?> > Ed Weick wrote:
> >
> >> From Adolph Eichmanns closing statement:
> >>
> >> My life's principle, which I was taught very early on, was to
> >> desire and to strive to achieve ethical values. >From a particular
> >> moment on, however, I was prevented by the State from living
> >> according to this principle. I had to switch from the unity of
> >> ethics to one of multiple morals. I had to yield to the inversion
> >> of values which was prescribed by the State.
> >>
> >> Just doin' my job suh, just doin' my job. It was the boss, suh, not me.> The quote does not sound to me quite so "simple". It sounds to
> me more like Eichmann was childreared to be "good" in an environment
> where goodness was defined in terms of obeying the values of
> the persons in authority (initially one's parents). Had
> he been on *our* side, he would, at worst, have had a
> successful career, and perhaps have received some public
> recognition of his good service to the values we hold dear.
> I can posibly imagine Abraham saying something similar when
> ordered to kill his son Isaac, had he been brought
> before some tribunal.
>
> I don't have a pithy "moral" to draw from this.
> And maybe Eichmann really thought "Just doin' my job suh",
> but that is not exactly what the quote seems to me to say.
> The words say the man believes he has a conscience and
> that he tried to live acording to it.Brad, I didn't mean to trivialize what Eichmann said, and you are right, Eichmann probably did have a conscience and tried to live by it. However, what I think what he was saying was that serving the individual conscience had to be subservient, and if necessary bent, to the higher purposes of the state. I don't think it would have taken much bending. Among those higher purposes in Germany and indeed in much of Europe, historically, was that Jews had to be kept in their place by being isolated, ghettoized, expelled and, under some circumstance, killed because they were viewed as antithetical to the welfare and order of the state. I don't believe Eichmann when he said he had trouble doing his job. He was a good German of his time, a good official, used to following orders. While he may not have relished the thought of killing five million people, someone had to do the paperwork, and it fell to him.When I used the phrase "Just doin' my job, suh", a very banal way of putting it, I had in mind Hannah Arndt's characterization of Eichmann's testimony as "the banality of evil".Ed----- Original Message -----From: "Brad McCormick, Ed.D." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: "futurework" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 7:47 AMSubject: Re: [Futurework] More myopia and all that ~ looking thru the telescope vs looking in the mirror?> Barry wrote:
> > Have we all forgotten the Milgrim experiments? (For a really quick
> > refresher, you might try Milgrim <http://www.new-life.net/milgram.htm>
> > (http://www.new-life.net/milgram.htm). Enjoy!
> >
> > Barry
> >
> > Ed Weick wrote:
> >
> >> From Adolph Eichmanns closing statement:
> >>
> >> My life's principle, which I was taught very early on, was to
> >> desire and to strive to achieve ethical values. >From a particular
> >> moment on, however, I was prevented by the State from living
> >> according to this principle. I had to switch from the unity of
> >> ethics to one of multiple morals. I had to yield to the inversion
> >> of values which was prescribed by the State.
> >>
> >> Just doin' my job suh, just doin' my job. It was the boss, suh, not me.
>
> I only know about Eichmann what I've read in newspaper articles
> and such. Eichmann has become a symbol of the person who
> exculpates themself by saying they were just following orders
> even though, as in his case, they were relatively highly
> placed.
>
> The quote does not sound to me quite so "simple". It sounds to
> me more like Eichmann was childreared to be "good" in an environment
> where goodness was defined in terms of obeying the values of
> the persons in authority (initially one's parents). Had
> he been on *our* side, he would, at worst, have had a
> successful career, and perhaps have received some public
> recognition of his good service to the values we hold dear.
> I can posibly imagine Abraham saying something similar when
> ordered to kill his son Isaac, had he been brought
> before some tribunal.
>
> I don't have a pithy "moral" to draw from this.
> And maybe Eichmann really thought "Just doin' my job suh",
> but that is not exactly what the quote seems to me to say.
> The words say the man believes he has a conscience and
> that he tried to live acording to it.
>
> Well, maybe here's one "moral" to draw: Darned lucky
> persons don't often get put in a position similar to
> Eichmann's. But managers (teachers and other
> persons in positions of authority) often, I think, do things
> to those over whom they have power, that are less than decent.
>
> I find Eichmann's articulation of his position scary.
> I also find scary those who are less articulate but not
> less at risk for doing bad things if put in a bad situation.
> I also am concerned that, the way articulate discourse
> is deployed very eloquently and seemingly
> cogently (or, as in postmodernism, incomprehensibly...)
> for causes that may not be so good, in our time,
> it is harderfor us to tell what is good and what is not
> good than if "we" didn't do such a good job of
> defending some pretty bad things in such areas
> as treatment of employees, students, and other
> persons in positions of powerlesness.
>
> Just like with "911" and similar incidents, I think
> we should invest a lot of our efforts in seeing
> how conditions we take to be normal and OK contributed
> to enabling the catstrophe to happen to us.
>
> \brad mccormick
>
> --
> Let your light so shine before men,
> that they may see your good works.... (Matt 5:16)
>
> Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1 Thes 5:21)
>
> <![%THINK;[SGML+APL]]> Brad McCormick, Ed.D. / [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Visit my website ==> http://www.users.cloud9.net/~bradmcc/
>
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