On Fri, Jun 29, 2012 at 10:17:23PM +0200, Thomas Funk wrote:
> "Dan Espen" <des...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >Still giving the whole issue some thought.
> >Still seems to me like:
> >
> >The XDG spec is faulty. It treats xxx-applications like a special
> >case, but completely ignores any other root menu.
> No, it's not faulty
> Extract from Desktop Menu Specification V1.0
> File locations
> $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS/menus/${XDG_MENU_PREFIX}applications.menu
> :
> Implementations may chose to use .menu files with other names for tasks
> or menus other than the main application menu. Such usage is not covered
> by this specification.
But we know that distros vary on this. So I think some concensus through
clarification is needed here.
> >Shouldn't there be a xxx-settings.menu and a
> >xxx-documentation menu?
> If a distro think it should exist one sure. On my Debian system a
> gnome-settings.menu and a kde4-information.menu but they are optional.
> If a user wants them, no prob - should implement it in her/his config.
>
> We should give the user the ability to get an applications menu.
> All others are the users beer. Sure, we should give her/him the possibility
> to access these menus and fvwm-menu-desktop do this.
Yes. I've yet to see *anyone* do this.
> >If there were, the menu prefix would make sense.
> >Maybe no prefix for the distro default, and
> >xxx- prefixes for each desktop package.
> You're right. Normally the ${XDG_MENU_PREFIX} is empty by default. Only if
No. It's *likely* to be empty, but I know many people who set this, myself
included. Don't make undue assumptions.
> Extract from Desktop Menu Specification V1.0
> File locations
> $XDG_CONFIG_DIRS/menus/${XDG_MENU_PREFIX}applications.menu
> :
> Systems that offer multiple desktop environments and that want to use
> distinct menu layouts in the different environments can use differently
> prefixed .menu files. In this case the $XDG_MENU_PREFIX environment
> variable must be set by the system to reflect the .menu file that is
> being used.
>
> I've checked 7 distros (Debian, Redhat, Ubuntu, Mandriva, Fedora,
> OpenSuse) with different versions and on all ${XDG_MENU_PREFIX} isn't set.
> Therefore fvwm-xdg-menu and fvwm-menu-desktop.in doesn't check it.
Err, but they should. Gentoo set this. Don't try and be preemptive. It's
in the spec that it's honoured. *Honour* it.
> >I see that Gentoo claims to have a gnome-applications.menu.
> On my Debian system there's also a gnome-applications.menu in
> $HOME/.config/menus/ Therefore I've implemented in my fvwm-xdg-menu the
> mtime check. That works on my system, but on a Xubuntu system from a
> friend of mine the xfce-settings.menu was found because this menu was
> changed as the last one ... so you see, not really practicable...
Anything based on mtime is flawed. Don't use it. Seriously.
> >Maybe what I'm seeing in Fedora is just a Fedora issue.
> Maybe. But I've checked the applications-gnome.menu and applications.menu
> under your system (F17 hopefully ^^) and they are 95% identical. So for
> me I address the question - why this discussion? We create for 95-98% of the
> distros an application menu. Perhaps for 100. If not, the user have to
> look deeper in her/his system and the fvwm-menu-desktop help. Then he
> must change the command and get the menu she/he wants....
No, they shouldn't care, which means either the menus contravene the XDG
spec, or we do. We should find out.
> @Thomas:
> >...this has to state that it would override whatever XDG_MENU_PREFIX
> >might be set to.
> This happens if we implement the $XDG_MENU_PREFIX, yes. But at the moment
> we must set this manually to get e.g. a gnome-applications.menu. But
> normally
> the applications.menu reflects the most applications installed on a system.
Then this is likely broken, and before I release the next FVWM version, I
will be auditing fvwm-menu-desktop with a fine comb. If you're in doubt,
ask those who implemented and designed the XDG spec.
I'll give you a month, because after that, I'd like to release the next FVWM
version.
-- Thomas Adam
--
"Deep in my heart I wish I was wrong. But deep in my heart I know I am
not." -- Morrissey ("Girl Least Likely To" -- off of Viva Hate.)
