Hello Matthew and Marco, Thank you for your kind reply!
First and foremost I have to tell you how much we appreciate and admire what you are doing! Thank you very much for you hard work! Appreciation and respect are the driving force of everything good and positive. Your reply means so much to me! It means that you listen for our problems, opposite to what I have been told. The communication is an encouragement and the key for solving all problems. I know how fast everything evolves in this industry. I started my exciting journey in this magical forest back in 1983. We still discover so many things in programming. That's why this journey is so exacting. Our knowledge, vision and understanding change. I totally understand and I don't expect the process of merging ZF1 library/components to ZF2 module/library to be automatic. The lessen I learned is: If I am going to use PHP and Zend Framework for complex long term projects, me and every member of my team have to be an active community member. The way of thinking "us" (our project) and "them" (ZF team) should be changed to ONLY "us" and our ZF project. The separation should be replaced by cooperation. We can not expect ZF team to solve all our problems and follow them like blind. My hope is: Zend Framework to become the main standard framework for all PHP developers. Everybody to follow the same naming, coding standards, application structure, design patterns and best practices. I think ZF has the potential to play this role. There are over than 40 official frameworks like CodeIgniter, Symfony, CakePHP etc. and endless amount of unofficial frameworks. Virtual every PHP programmer has his own framework and way of doing things.The main weakness/advantage of PHP is that allows you to do the same things on endless different ways. It looks like the story for the Babylon Tower. All people have been curst to speak different languages, not to be able to cooperate and build a tower tall enough to reach god. I really hope ZF is the key for changing this situation. Instead of everybody rewriting his own blog, CMS, WiKi, forum etc. to have them as ZF modules and reuse them. There are so many PHP developers. If all PHP developers follow the same application/module structure soon we will end up having so many reusable elements which will allow us to reach unbelievable levels. "What a wonderful world!" :) Best Regards, Stoyan Cheresharov Matthew Weier O'Phinney <matt...@zend.com> hat am 5. November 2012 um 15:17 geschrieben: > -- cheresha...@ihahockey.com <cheresha...@ihahockey.com> wrote > (on Sunday, 04 November 2012, 07:53 PM +0100): > <snip> > > I have not been active member of the community because I have been > > busy working on our projects. So I have not been part of the > > discussions about the design patterns etc. in ZF2. I also couldn't > > believe we have to start over again. > > The point of a new _major_ release is to allow backwards breaking > changes. Sometimes previous decisions make it impossible to accommodate > new application designs -- or even existing ones! -- and the only way to > allow them is to break compatibility. This is not done lightly -- > whenever a change like this has to be made, there's significant thought > that goes into it. > > With ZF1, we had 5 years between major releases. This is a huge amount > of time, and during that time, we discovered many people were moving > _away_ from ZF1 because we could not accommodate the applications they > wanted to build. We thus chose to make a new major version that would > address the shortcomings in the framework. > > This happens. > > What we plan going forward is a shorter timeframe between major > releases. This may seem like an odd decision, as we're saying there will > be backwards incompatible changes more frequently. However, the idea is > that we can introduce _fewer_ breaks, and thus make migration to the new > version easier. > > This is a plan for the _future_ though, and does not address your > concerns about ZF2. > > > I think ZF2 has great ideas. But there should be a way to migrate the > > existing code not multiply the time and effort of so many people by 0. > > You've been able to write code that works release after release for 5+ > years at this point. We had to draw a line in the sand somewhere. > > We're working on compiling information on migration. The fact of the > matter, however, is that it's not likely going to be something that can > be automated, nor something you can likely manage to do in a few hours > (unless your site is quite small). But the end result should be quite > compelling -- a truly modular architecture, with the ability to > substitute services easily, and the ability to tie into the application > workflow in a much simpler fashion. > > > The sad story in this industry is that if you follow somebody (we follow > > Zend) > > you are doomed to be always second. > > We have to buy again new books, attend seminars invest again huge amount of > > time > > learning the new. things. > > It is like pushing the reset button of your computer. Every once in a while > > somebody pushes the reset button and we all start from scratch again. > > And we are not allowed to complain, because we get everything "for free". > > It is a whole industry around such projects. To keep it going there should > > be > > such restarts. > > "Instead of learning, you better learn how to learn fast!" > > We better start refactoring everything to use ZF2, right now. And in 5 years > > ... > > or even sooner they again will push our reset button. :) > > This is the way how it is! > > It's clear you're frustrated. However, the web application industry is, > and always has been, a fast-paced one. Five years ago, if somebody had > told me that the dominant web development paradigm would be centered > around RESTful JSON services, I would have laughed; and yet, today, > that's true. Five years ago, I hoped we could cobble together a way to > make modules drag-and-drop for users; it's still not possible in ZF1, > due to the way we did the initial architecture. > > My point is that a combination of technology changes and architecture > will always limit what can be done with code released one year, two > years, 5 years ago. This is, unfortunately, the way it is. > > Yes, you can complain about it. But it won't necessarily change how the > project adapts moving forward -- for the very reason that it needs to > adapt. > > > -- > Matthew Weier O'Phinney > Project Lead | matt...@zend.com > Zend Framework | http://framework.zend.com/ > PGP key: http://framework.zend.com/zf-matthew-pgp-key.asc > > -- > List: fw-general@lists.zend.com > Info: http://framework.zend.com/archives > Unsubscribe: fw-general-unsubscr...@lists.zend.com > >
