I'll also agree that the post was well thought out and written. It made good points about how the perception in an email can convey a great deal as to the tact or angle a person is coming from. Some of you may remember that online game 'Starbase Challenge' I think it was. I played that for quite some time years back. I helped the developer with making the map useable for blind/vi gamers. As I recall I sent an email explaining my situation, gave credit as 90% of the game was working fine with screen reading programs told him I had an idea or two about the galaxy map and if he was interested in hearing them to write back. I only sent one email, then left it up to the dev to contact me. Accessibility isn't something we have a right to, but with co-operative efforts diplomacy and some luck these ends can be achieved.
Ron ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Rivard" <wee1s...@fidnet.com> To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 6:54 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? Your post is a very good example of what what some of us have tried so hard to get across to other gamers, and I really appreciate it! Thank you very much! Another problem that comes up when blind people try to get game developers to take us seriously is that we must not hound the developer to death with impatient and continuous demands, expecting and demanding immediate action on their part. These people aren't just sitting around twiddling their proverbial thumbs waiting for someone to give them more work to do as far as game development. They have projects in the works, they have other issues going on in their work and personal lives, and we, like everyone else, must give them time, and we, like everyone else, must be willing to cooperate with them if we expect them to even consider cooperating with us. Be a whiny baby, and you'll be treated as such, or you will just be ignored. Problem is, the developer just might, unfortunately, believe that all blind people are the same kind of a whiny demanding little baby, and not take any other blind person seriously, either, based of their past experiences with blind gamers.. We also need to give them constructive criticism, nicely, in order to get the job done. Don't just tell them that it doesn't work, or that this is a lousy game. What doesn't work? Do you have ideas on how to make it work? If it is lousy, how could it be made better? Or, just maybe, it's not the game for you, even if it does operate as it should. After all, I'm not going to buy an RPG if I'm not interested in one, nor would I be working to get a game developer to make an RPG work for me unless I want to get into that kind of a game. --- Shepherds are the best beasts, but Labs are a close second. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Hartley" <jeremyhart...@comcast.net> To: "'Gamers Discussion list'" <gamers@audyssey.org> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 1:14 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Blind Gamers Being Taken Seriously? > Hello All, > > I have been a member of this list since 2000 or 2001, whenever this list > in > all of the many forms was begun. I have also been a business owner, a > professional musician, and now work as a computer trainer for blind and > sighted individuals. As you may guess, since I am on this list, I happen > to > be totally blind, and have been so for my entire life of 36 years. > > Like it or not, we as blind and visually impaired individuals, exist in a > sighted world. Choke it down. Get used to it, and get over it, and get > with it. So, what does this all mean for any of us blind gamers? Plenty! > > Whether we like it or not, we are viewed differently by the sighted world. > Differently? What does that mean. Well, to me, I have seen sighted > gamers > say things like, well, they can play text games. Or, well, why do the > blind > even need to play games like us anyway. Ok, that really stings to read > such > comments, but it is due to an ignorance of most of this sighted world. > Yes, > I said ignorance. Not stupidity! Too often, people mix up ignorance and > stupidity, and call it at that. > > So, why should we care? I mean, we have our games written by Jim Kitchen, > draconis, and other devs who are either visually impaired or realize we > are > out there, hungry to play games. Taken nothing away from those people, > why > shouldn't we as people, not blind, not visually impaired people, just > people, be taken seriously? > > Well, we are in some ways, but not in other ways. I have found that in > order to be taken seriously by the sighted world, we need to show that we > know what we are talking about, enough to capture their interest. Not > everyone can get the point across when it comes to interests and what > blind > and visually impaired people are capable of accomplishing. After all, we > all have our interests, pleasures and dislikes. > > So, what can we do? The answer is simple, if one takes the time to put > things into perspective. We all want a lot of the same things, but we go > about accomplishing them in the wrong way a lot of times. > > What it really comes down to, at least for me, is that we really need to > step up and give any sighted game dev a picture of what we are asking for. > If a map is not read by voiceover on the Iphone, why is that? Have we > explored the window with our voiceover cursor? If so, then what can we > say > to the dev to make sense of our needs. Does text need to be placed on the > map? If so, what text, and would it be beneficial to have map coordinates > mentioned? Would that be enough? Would it require a whole rewrite of the > app to make things right, or would it be OK to have a few additions made > to > the program? > > Guess what. For each app/program/game/whatever, it differs, depending on > the program in question. > > You may think we can't make a difference, but I would like to tell you > from > personal experience, sometimes just a nudge makes a difference. But, what > kind of nudge? Sadly, I have to say that when it comes to blind folks, > and > yes, because I am one, I am a bit partial to blind folks, but blind folks > must be one step ahead. > > So, what do I mean? well, I mean when it comes to explaining what we > need, > we must be specific. I am sure that many of us have been in the situation > where we have been working with a sighted colleague. We say something > like, > "just go to the file menu and go to save as. > It is amazing how many sighted computer users don't even know about this > simple menu item. But, we have to know each menu item, each choice. We > have to know the difference between a combo box, a radio button and a push > button. Guess what? If you were to ask most of the sighted computer > users > what a radio button was, they would look at you with a blank stair. Why > should they know? I mean, a button is a button, after all, is what they > say. Like it or not, we know there is a difference, and when it comes to > developers, we need to make our wants and needs crystal clear. > > Another issue we face is the fact that some of the messages sighted devs > get > from us, well, they aren't the most well written messages. I truly think > that if we are going to present ourselves as a community to be taken > seriously, we must double and triple check what we put on the web, and how > we present ourselves. > > Now, this has a lot to do with what I am about to say, so please do not > think I am picking on any one person. > Let's take something simple like audiogames.net. > > My apologies to the mods of audiogames.net, but I have to say that if a > sighted dev went to that site for the first time, they would have to think > twice. Just as one example, the word puzzle is spelled with two z's and > not > one. Something so small can make or break what someone new sees and > thinks > about our quote community unquote. > > Yeah, I know several folks are going to gasp now, saying that I just > picked > on Dark, and I gave him no time to defend himself. No! Not at all. Dark > has given a lot to this community. I could have written to him directly, > but I wanted to make a point that we are being wathched, and judged, even > if > we don't know it is being done. I respect Dark, and hope he keeps up what > he is doing. I am bringing up a terrible fact, that all of us, whether we > want to or not, have to choke down! We need to be one step ahead if we > are > to be taken seriously. That means checking spelling and the like. > > So, after all this rambling, what I hope to get across is that we need to > do > more than just write ideas to devs. We need to really make an effort to > educate devs. Like it or not, we are viewed as inferior by a lot of > people, > not just game developers, and when we can come to grips with that, we will > be stronger. Do I mean that the world is out to get us? Heck no. Nobody > is out to get us. What I mean in all sincerity is that we need to push > our > strengths, whether we like it or not. Let's all focus on what we can do > and > how we can teach others, rather than whine, beg, and scream. Trustm e. > It > will work. > > Jeremy Hartley > > > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
