FWIW, I agree with almost all of your sentiments... For my money/ time, it makes little sense to have the CLiki / ALU Wiki and the CLD. Thanks for being so honest and forthright! (Sometime I'm not ready to do, at least, not tonight!).
> I think the effort put into the Common Lisp Directory was almost > completely misplaced. It places content moderated by some unknown > bunch of people into some strange limbo, where it's not clear what > attempts to be authoritative and what isn't. It has no community > behind it (yes, of course this is a chicken and egg problem). It has > no focus beyond "Common Lisp". To the extent that it intersects with > my interests, it provides negative added value over CLiki, because at > least on CLiki I can correct mistakes and add content with minimal > effort. Fortunately, Google doesn't like the CLD very much. > > I wanted to demonstrate some of these points using an example, and > ironically it took me several minutes to find. I guessed three times > before finding where Papers lived in the pseudohierarchy, and then > remembered that although what I was looking for demonstrated an > example of method combination, it wasn't a paper, but some example > code with comments, and was therefore a library. I found it > eventually; its title is "Defaulting optional arguments for generic > functions" but it leads to code which at first sight has nothing to do > with this. Yes, the "official web site" link explains the connection, > but it is opaque to the visitor to the directory. > > Search is bizarre at least; for instance, the egotist's search for > "christophe rhodes" doesn't find the person of the same name. There > are many other user interface weirdnesses; why is search only > available from the index page; why do I need to click? But > essentially my feelings about the Common Lisp Directory is that it > provides no benefit and sucks up effort from those who could better > spend their time elsewhere. > > Having said all of this, I don't want to make the CLD administrators > angry, hate me or leave the Lisp community as a bunch of whiny losers > who don't know what's good for them. I would name them, but actually > I can't because I don't know who they are (and I couldn't get the CLD > to tell me), but at least Marc, Paolo and Arthur have individually and > collectively in the past done good things, such as speaking at > meetings, maintaining the encyCMUCLopedia, and flying the CLIM flag > for Europe, among many other things, not to mention the software that > they have released for people to use. I simply do not think that the > CLD itself is an interesting or sustainable way to manage information. > > Away from the CLD, and again since I've been pointed at this thread, > here are some more thoughts. "Lisp needs labour, not praise", yes, > but I don't think that work for work's sake is of any use to anyone. > Lisp will grow sustainably if people use it, learn to use it better, > write stuff in it and about it, release cool applications or useful > libraries, and so on. I think Paolo realises this, but I don't doubt > his labour, and I address as he addresses those who haven't yet lifted > a finger: if there is something that interests you, excites you, or > even is a work project, then if you can, don't just keep silent, > trying to solve every problem yourself: make the problems you run up > against known. If you've evaluated XML libraries recently and found > them all wanting for your purposes, say so. If you've tried to write > bindings to Apple's MIDI interface and failed because of Apple's > woeful documentation, then shout: someone else may have hacked > something up, even if it's not release-quality. > > This is the kind of information that should be exchanged, not things > which can be found more easily using Google that in some specialized > directory; there would be added value from a directory if there were > room for opinion (such as "this project contains no useful code") but > it seems that this kind of editorialization is out of scope. The > information that helps newcomers sort through the maze of stuff that's > out there; in many ways, I think Paolo's ~/.signature file was a far > more effective CL Directory than the current effort, and that is the > kind of communication I would like to see encouraged. > > I would of course also like to encourage newcomers into the world of > Lisp, developing stuff, using libraries, writing useful bug reports. > Not at any price, though. If you newcomers do make yourselves known > in response to Peter's call, then there will be interest in assisting > you; silence will not lead to your problems (if any, but then if > you're on this list you at least perceive problems) being solved. > > Cheers, > > Christophe > > _______________________________________________ > Gardeners mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.lispniks.com/mailman/listinfo/gardeners -- Gary Warren King metabang.com http://www.metabang.com/ _______________________________________________ Gardeners mailing list [email protected] http://www.lispniks.com/mailman/listinfo/gardeners
