Dear GF ----- Original Message ----- From: GF To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 2:44 AM Subject: Re: [Gasification] 300 Megawatt Power Plant
kevin. I understand there are mines that have caught fire underground by accident in the 1950's and are still burning with the oxygen being produced by FT reactions at the seat of the fire. GF # Very true!! It is easy to set a mine fire, under the right conditions. There is no question that FT reactions work, and there is no question that such accidental underground coalfield fires have occurred in coalfields that have been mined. From what I can see, (and please correct me if I am wrong): 1: Such accidental underground coalfield fires are uncontrollable. 2: Such accidental underground coalfield fires can cause very significant "surface damage", in terms of subsidence, or gas emanations that can make nearby communities uninhabitable 3: Such accidental underground coalfield fires do not produce a consistent gas, of value either for combustion in a process, or for utiligation in a process. 4: Such accidental underground coalfield fires are generally considered to be a disaster in the area where they occur. 5: Such accidental underground coalfield fires have never been used to economic advantage 6: Such accidental underground coalfield fires are totally uncomparable to "underground gasification projects intended to produce a fuel gas or synthesis gas for economic benefit." 7: The Swan Hills Website contains a number of misleading statements that seem to infer that their proposed project is equivalent to "gasification", and that the relatively long history of "gasification" can be used to show there project is technically feasible. For example, at http://swanhills-synfuels.com/iscg/overview/ we see: Gasification History: Gasification was first developed in the 1800s and has been used commercially throughout the world for more than 100 years. A variety of industries have utilized the technology including chemical production, fertilizer manufacturing, and electrical power generation. Today, the majority of the operating gasification plants worldwide are surface gasification plants designed to produce chemicals, fuels, electricity, and fertilizers. It then goes on to equate "Gasification" with "In-Situ Coal Gasification " (ISCG)) in a misleading manner: "How does Gasification work? Feedstock (for ISCG it is deep coal) is exposed to high temperature and high pressure. In the presence of steam at these conditions a series of chemical reactions occur which convert the feedstock into syngas." This would tend to suggest that the gas product from ISGC is equivalent to the quality and production from a "surface gasification plant." The Websiteite seems to gloss over the important differences, and seems to overlook technical challenges that lie ahead for them. The Website contains a number of statements which could be termed "forward looking." Best wishes, Kevin Chisholm -----Original Message----- From: Kevin <[email protected]> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Feb 14, 2011 10:42 pm Subject: Re: [Gasification] 300 Megawatt Power Plant Dear GF ----- Original Message ----- From: GF To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [Gasification] 300 Megawatt Power Plant What happens to the chlorine component in the underground reaction. when using salt water. Chlorine is really unfriendly to metals including stainless steel. what sort of conduit is to be used for conducting the hot product to the surface for refinement? # Very gfood question!! The presence of chlorine in a starved oxygen combustion environment is likely to generate an environmental disaster, with the chlorinated hydrocarbons that that will almost certainly result. # Underground gasification of coal is a really neat concept, but as far as I know it doesn't work. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_coal_gasification Many people in many places have spent many dollars trying to get it to work. After many tests, there does not appear to be a single commercially successful Underground Coal Gasification project now, or in the past. # See their Website at http://swanhills-synfuels.com/ On their FAQ page, http://swanhills-synfuels.com/iscg/faq/, they state: "Gasification can compete effectively in high-cost energy environments." This seems to say a lot. Best wishes, Kevin Chisholm GF -----Original Message----- From: Henri Naths <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Mon, Feb 14, 2011 1:54 pm Subject: [Gasification] 300 Megawatt Power Plant Dear list and all I believe there some techincal issues involved with this gasification process. All comments are appreciated. Thanks Henri $1.5 Billion Swan Hills Synfuels Project was announced by the Alberta Government. This project will manufacture clean synthetic gas from deep coal deposits to fuel a new 300 Megawatt Power Plant to be built at Whitecourt. This transformative project is a whole new way to generate clean electricity, using Alberta's vast, deep stranded coal reserves. Whitecourt will have the Province's first clean power source ! In July 2010 Town Council approved the next 20 acre Phase of the Hilltop Industrial area. Infrastructure work will commence immediately in order to have lots available for early spring 2011 to support the growth form the above project. In addition Pembina Pipelines announced the final approval of their NIPISI & MITSUE pipeline projects in the Judy Creek area. They are expected to provide 1,000 short term construction jobs. In situ coal is converted into a gas by piping saline water and pure oxygen down an injection well. The resulting combustion, plus the steam created by it, converts the coal into gas that flows up a production well to a surface gas-separation plant. The project will drill about 20 pairs of injection and production wells. “The gas is taken to a plant where the CO2 is removed,” said Shaigec. (managing director for Swanhills Synfuels ) “We then have finished syngas, that is dispatched to a pipeline and then to the generator.” This low-carbon gas will be used to fuel a new 300 MW power plant to be built near Whitecourt, Alberta. Gasification History Gasification was first developed in the 1800s and has been used commercially throughout the world for more than 100 years. A variety of industries have utilized the technology including chemical production, fertilizer manufacturing, and electrical power generation. Today, the majority of the operating gasification plants worldwide are surface gasification plants designed to produce chemicals, fuels, electricity, and fertilizers. Gasification Market As of 2008, there were 420 gasifiers at 140 facilities in operation globally, the majority of these being surface gasification plants (source – GTC). World gasification capacity is projected to grow by more than 70% by 2015 with much of the growth occurring in Asia (source – GTC). A number of factors contribute to a growing interest in gasification, including volatile oil and natural gas prices, more stringent environmental regulations, and a growing consensus that CO2 management should be required in power generation and energy production. How does Gasification work? Feedstock (for ISCG it is deep coal) is exposed to high temperature and high pressure. In the presence of steam at these conditions a series of chemical reactions occur which convert the feedstock into syngas. In the case of ISCG, this chemical conversion of the deep coal happens in place in its original seam. The resultant syngas created consists primarily of hydrogen, methane, carbon dioxide, and carbon monoxide. To create this chemical conversion, two wells are drilled into the deep coal seam. A horizontal injection well is used to introduce oxygen and water into the seam; the oxygen supports a limited and controlled amount of combustion, raising the temperature of the coal and boiling the water to generate steam. The naturally existing deep underground pressure, along with the elevated coal temperature and the presence of steam, together form the right conditions to gasify the coal. The vertical production well is used to conduct the raw syngas to the surface. Char and ash, which are remnants of the original coal, remain deep underground. Figure 1. ISCG Well Pair Schematic The coal seam for ISCG development at the Swan Hills Synfuels site is 1400 m beneath the surface, approximately 800 m below the Base of Groundwater Protection (depth limit of fresh groundwater – below this depth, groundwater is saline), eliminating potential for fresh groundwater contamination. Saline water is used for injection into the coal seam through the horizontal well, virtually eliminating the need for fresh water in the ISCG process. _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this message. 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