Tom The ansver to your question is very simple.
The customers should buy gasifiers!! Then they will be developed. Ulrik - the "father" of the Viking gasifier - once said "6 months after you can make real money on a biomass gasifier there will be a working gasifier on the market" If there are cheaper and/or better solutions small scale biomass gasification will struggle. Thomas -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Fra: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] På vegne af Tom Miles Sendt: 28. juni 2012 03:14 Til: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' Emne: Re: [Gasification] Which of the gasifiers Tom listed are meeting Knoef's commercial criteria David, It looks like you have the makings of a survey. :-/ Harrie's criteria are good and would be difficult for most suppliers to meet. We want gasifiers to be as readily installed and operated as boilers. We should determine what needs to be done to get more suppliers over all of these hurdles. Tom -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Coote Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 4:38 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Gasification] Which of the gasifiers Tom listed are meeting Knoef's commercial criteria Hi Tom, Picking up from Thomas Koch's comments below, do you have any insight into perhaps the 4 or 5 gasifier vendors with systems being used for electricity generation that are doing the best job of meeting Knoef's criteria for successful commercial gasifiers? Thanks David Knoef et al (2007, p5) proposed the following criteria for determining whether or not a gasification technology is commercial: 1. Continuous integrated plant operation under commercial conditions for a minimum of 2,000 hours 2. Plant availability of 80% or higher 3. Profitable plant operation without government support; an example is the sustainable financial support from CHP operations with feed-in rate for electricity and heat 4. Plant operation without major modifications during the first year of commissioning 5. Process owners willing to specify investment and operational costs and offer or arrange performance, service, and maintenance guarantees 6. Process owners ready to offer 'turn-key' plants Knoef et al also emphasise "that the development, optimization, and commercialization of first-of-a-kind BMG process are challenging and require substantial financial resources" (2007, p4) and that sale of "5 or more gasification systems of the same gasification island configuration" is a commercial criterion (2007, p1). Knoef HAM, Buhler R, and Babu S 2007. Workshop No. 1 (2007-09): Situation Analysis and Success and Visions for Biomass Gasification IEA. Retrieved October 1, 2009 from http://media.godashboard.com//gti/IEA_BRU_11-07.pdf > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 07:31:12 -0700 > From: "Tom Miles"<[email protected]> > To: "'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'" > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Gasification] 2 MWe Gasifier at University of British > Columbia, Vancouver, Canada > Message-ID:<[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I should add PRM Energy and ENERIA to the list. > > PRM Energy has supplied many gasifier for industrial uses. At least > two have > been used for power generation, one in Italy and one in France. The > system in Limoges, France, is owned and operated by ENERIA, the > Caterpillar dealer > for France, Poland, Romania, Algeria and Belgium. ENERIA has been the > Caterpillar dealer for France since 1929. > > The plant was built in 2006 as a 1.0MWe test/demo unit for testing of > various fuels that can be gasified in the PRME gasifier and produce a > suitable syngas for IC Engines. ENERIA installed three (3) different > types of gas cleaning technology to determine which was best for the IC Engine > application. The plant is fully equipped with gas conditioning, gas > cooling. emissions monitoring etc. > > Contacts: > > PRM Energy > http://www.prmenergy.com/ > Ron Bailey Sr. [email protected] > > Eneria > http://www.eneria.fr/english/renewable-energy/biomass-plants.html > > Eneria will also test the Xylowatt gasifier from Belgium: > http://www.xylowatt.com/en/Dernieres-Actualites/eneria-et-xylowatt-concluent > -un-partenariat-pour-developper-la-cogeneration-biomasse.html > > > Tom > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Tom Miles > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 4:11 PM > To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'; > [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Gasification] 2 MWe Gasifier at University of British > Columbia, Vancouver, Canada > > Thomas > > Who are the likely small scale gasifier suppliers that will conquer > these challenges? > > A > Ankur Scientific, India http://www.ankurscientific.com/ > > B. > Babcock Volund, Denmark http://www.volund.dk/ > 3 gasifiers up to 2 MWe > > Biogen, Dominican Republic http://www.biogendr.com/app/en/frontpage.aspx > 300-500 kWe modules, Italy > C > CarboConsult, South Africa http://www.carboconsult.com/ > 250 kWe, Melanie, Gauteng, South Africa > > Carbona/Andritz, Finland > http://www.andritz.com/pp-gasification-andritz-carbona > 3 MWe plant in Skive, Denmark > > CleanStGas, Austria http://www.cleanstgas.com/ > 125-250 kWe/235-480 kWth > > Community Power Corporation www.gocpc.com > 50-75 kWe modules. > > E > EKZ, Switzerland www.ekz.ch > Turnkey wood gasifier installations > > G > Gasek, Finland www.gasek.fi > 50 kWe/100 kWth > > I > IISc, India and Licensees > http://cgpl.iisc.ernet.in/site/Technologies/BiomassGasification/tabid/68/Def > ault.aspx > > > M > > MEVA Innovation AB, Sweden (fine wood fuels) http://www.mevainnovation.se/ > 1-10 MWe; 1.2 MWe in construction Horlax, Pitea > > Mothermik, Germany http://www.mothermik.com/engl/prod-1holzver-e.html > 10 plants.250 kWe > > N > Nexterra Ltd., Vancouver, Canada http://www.nexterra.ca/ > 2 MWe in construction. University of British Columbia > > R > Repotec, Austria http://www.repotec.at/index.php/homepage.html > Dual fluidized bed for CHP > > S > Satake, Japan (IISc, India technology) > http://www.satake-group.com/news/2008/080214.html > Up to 900 kWe modules > > Stirling DK, Denmark http://www.stirling.dk/ > 15-140 kWe, Updraft gasifier with stirling engine. > > T > TK Eenergi, Denmark http://www.tke.dk > 3 stage gasifier > U > Urbas Energietechnik, Austria http://www.rsbiomass.com/urbas_gas.html > 150 kWe/310 kWth fixed bed downdraft > > W > Weiss, Denmark, two stage gasification www.weiss-as.dk > 1-2 MWe > > X > Xylowatt, Belgium http://www.xylowatt.com/ > 350 kWe modules > > XyloPower AG, Switzerland www.xylopower.com > > > Which companies have 3 operating, commercial, gasifiers? > > Who else? > > Tom Miles > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Thomas Koch > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 2:15 PM > To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Gasification] 2 MWe Gasifier at University of British > Columbia, Vancouver, Canada > > Tom > > I am sure this price level is achieveable - BUT BUT BUT - there is a > major challege that must be overcommed. > > You need some where you can have 5-10 similar gasifiers operating for > 10 of > thousans of hours each with in reachable distance from their "parent (s)" > and this alone needs 50 - 100 mio $ on top of the market price for the > electricity - and it is possible to maintain a stable and bright and > not religious brain capacity for a decade or two. > > On top of that you need to start with a good idea and that is where > most principles fail. > And what does that mean? > Not too complex - with a potential to handle the challenges that will > come in an ECONOMICALLY COMPETITIVE way!!! > > Examples - V?lund - Nexterra - CFBs-Repotec and this type of gasifiers will > alvays have the challenge og tar/perticle gas handling issues - > personally I > believe it is too complex to handle in a competitive way. > FCC - may be large scale - but catalyst and gasifier is a challenge > 2-3 stage - Viking - double feuer - TKE - and the likes have high > temperature challenges and reduction challenges and bed stability > issues - variation in gaspermeability etc Stirling show a large drop > in efficiency if > upscaled above 50-75 kW thus the biomass handling systems becomes very small > and sensitive. > Entrained flow are very big and needs extensive pretreatment of the fuel. > > Many things will work for some time if nursed properly by the > enthusiastic developers. > > Thomas > _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenerg ylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
