> On Oct 26, 2023, at 1:05 PM, Martin Uecker <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Am Donnerstag, dem 26.10.2023 um 16:41 +0000 schrieb Qing Zhao:
>>
>>> On Oct 26, 2023, at 5:20 AM, Martin Uecker <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Am Donnerstag, dem 26.10.2023 um 10:45 +0200 schrieb Richard Biener:
>>>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 8:16 PM Martin Uecker <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Am Mittwoch, dem 25.10.2023 um 13:13 +0200 schrieb Richard Biener:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 25.10.2023 um 12:47 schrieb Martin Uecker <[email protected]>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am Mittwoch, dem 25.10.2023 um 06:25 -0400 schrieb Siddhesh Poyarekar:
>>>>>>>>> On 2023-10-25 04:16, Martin Uecker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Am Mittwoch, dem 25.10.2023 um 08:43 +0200 schrieb Richard Biener:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Am 24.10.2023 um 22:38 schrieb Martin Uecker <[email protected]>:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Am Dienstag, dem 24.10.2023 um 20:30 +0000 schrieb Qing Zhao:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, Sid,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Really appreciate for your example and detailed explanation. Very
>>>>>>>>>>>> helpful.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that this example is an excellent example to show (almost)
>>>>>>>>>>>> all the issues we need to consider.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I slightly modified this example to make it to be compilable and
>>>>>>>>>>>> run-able, as following:
>>>>>>>>>>>> (but I still cannot make the incorrect reordering or DSE
>>>>>>>>>>>> happening, anyway, the potential reordering possibility is there…)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1 #include <malloc.h>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2 struct A
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3 {
>>>>>>>>>>>> 4 size_t size;
>>>>>>>>>>>> 5 char buf[] __attribute__((counted_by(size)));
>>>>>>>>>>>> 6 };
>>>>>>>>>>>> 7
>>>>>>>>>>>> 8 static size_t
>>>>>>>>>>>> 9 get_size_from (void *ptr)
>>>>>>>>>>>> 10 {
>>>>>>>>>>>> 11 return __builtin_dynamic_object_size (ptr, 1);
>>>>>>>>>>>> 12 }
>>>>>>>>>>>> 13
>>>>>>>>>>>> 14 void
>>>>>>>>>>>> 15 foo (size_t sz)
>>>>>>>>>>>> 16 {
>>>>>>>>>>>> 17 struct A *obj = __builtin_malloc (sizeof(struct A) + sz *
>>>>>>>>>>>> sizeof(char));
>>>>>>>>>>>> 18 obj->size = sz;
>>>>>>>>>>>> 19 obj->buf[0] = 2;
>>>>>>>>>>>> 20 __builtin_printf (“%d\n", get_size_from (obj->buf));
>>>>>>>>>>>> 21 return;
>>>>>>>>>>>> 22 }
>>>>>>>>>>>> 23
>>>>>>>>>>>> 24 int main ()
>>>>>>>>>>>> 25 {
>>>>>>>>>>>> 26 foo (20);
>>>>>>>>>>>> 27 return 0;
>>>>>>>>>>>> 28 }
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When it’s set I suppose. Turn
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> X.l = n;
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Into
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> X.l = __builtin_with_size (x.buf, n);
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It would turn
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> some_variable = (&) x.buf
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> some_variable = __builtin_with_size ( (&) x.buf. x.len)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So the later access to x.buf and not the initialization
>>>>>>>>> of a member of the struct (which is too early).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hmm, so with Qing's example above, are you suggesting the
>>>>>>>> transformation
>>>>>>>> be to foo like so:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 14 void
>>>>>>>> 15 foo (size_t sz)
>>>>>>>> 16 {
>>>>>>>> 16.5 void * _1;
>>>>>>>> 17 struct A *obj = __builtin_malloc (sizeof(struct A) + sz *
>>>>>>>> sizeof(char));
>>>>>>>> 18 obj->size = sz;
>>>>>>>> 19 obj->buf[0] = 2;
>>>>>>>> 19.5 _1 = __builtin_with_size (obj->buf, obj->size);
>>>>>>>> 20 __builtin_printf (“%d\n", get_size_from (_1));
>>>>>>>> 21 return;
>>>>>>>> 22 }
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If yes then this could indeed work. I think I got thrown off by the
>>>>>>>> reference to __bdos.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes. I think it is important not to evaluate the size at the
>>>>>>> access to buf and not the allocation, because the point is to
>>>>>>> recover it from the size member even when the compiler can't
>>>>>>> see the original allocation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But if the access is through a pointer without the attribute visible
>>>>>> even the Frontend cannot recover?
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, if the access is using a struct-with-FAM without the attribute
>>>>> the FE would not be insert the builtin. BDOS could potentially
>>>>> still see the original allocation but if it doesn't, then there is
>>>>> no information.
>>>>>
>>>>>> We’d need to force type correctness and give up on indirecting
>>>>>> through an int * when it can refer to two diffenent container types.
>>>>>> The best we can do I think is mark allocation sites and hope for
>>>>>> some basic code hygiene (not clobbering size or array pointer
>>>>>> through pointers without the appropriately attributed type)
>>>>>
>>>>> I am do not fully understand what you are referring to.
>>>>
>>>> struct A { int n; int data[n]; };
>>>> struct B { long n; int data[n]; };
>>>>
>>>> int *p = flag ? a->data : b->data;
>>>>
>>>> access *p;
>>>>
>>>> Since we need to allow interoperability of pointers (a->data is
>>>> convertible to a non-fat pointer of type int *) this leaves us with
>>>> ambiguity we need to conservatively handle to avoid false positives.
>>>
>>> For BDOS, I would expect this to work exactly like:
>>>
>>> char aa[n1];
>>> char bb[n2];
>>> char *p = flag ? aa : bb;
>>>
>>> (or similar code with malloc). In fact it does:
>>>
>>> https://godbolt.org/z/bK68YKqhe
>>> (cheating a bit and also the sub-object version of
>>> BDOS does not seem to work)
>>>
>>>>
>>>> We _might_ want to diagnose decay of a->data to int *, but IIRC
>>>> there's no way (or proposal) to allow declaring a corresponding
>>>> fat pointer, so it's not a good designed feature.
>>>
>>> As a language feature, I fully agree. I see the
>>> counted_by attribute has a makeshift solution.
>>
>> The “counted_by” attribute is necessary at this moment since
>> it will be much easier to be adopted by the existing source code,
>> for example, the Linux Kernel.
>
> Yes, this is understood.
>
>>
>> Though I agree that embedding the bound information into TYPE
>> system should be the ultimate goal.
>>
>>>
>>> But we can already do:
>>>
>>> auto p = flag ? &aa : &bb;
>>>
>>> and this already works perfectly:
>>>
>>> https://godbolt.org/z/rvb6xWWPj
>>>
>>> We can also name the variably-modifed type:
>>>
>>> char (*p)[flag ? n1 : n2] = flag ? &aa : &bb;
>>> https://godbolt.org/z/13cTT1vGP
>>>
>>> The problem with this version is that consistency
>>> is not checked. (I have patch for adding run-time
>>> checks).
>>>
>>> And then the next step would be to allow
>>>
>>> char (*p)[:] = flag ? &aa : &bb;
>>>
>>> or similar. Dennis Ritchie proposed this himself
>>> a long time ago.
>>>
>>> So far this seems straightfoward.
>>>
>>> If we then want to allow such wide pointers as
>>> function arguments or in structs, we would need
>>> to define an ABI. But the ABI could just be
>>>
>>> struct { char (*p)[.s]; size_t s; };
>>>
>>> Maybe we could try to make the following
>>> ABI compatible:
>>>
>>> int foo(int p[s], size_t s);
>>> int foo(int p[:]);
>>>
>>>
>>>> Having __builtin_with_size at allocation would possibly make
>>>> the BOS use-def walk discover both objects.
>>>
>>> Yes. But I do not think this there is any fundamental
>>> difference to discovering allocation functions.
>>>
>>>> I think you can't
>>>> insert __builtin_with_size at the access to *p, but in practice
>>>> that would be very much needed.
>>>
>>> Usually the access to *p would follow directly the
>>> access x.buf, so BDOS should find it.
>>>
>>> But yes, to get full bounds safety, the pointer type
>>> has to change to a variably-modified type (which would work
>>> today) or a fat pointer type.
>>
>> By variable-modified type, you mean the VLA?
>
> I mean a pointer to a VLA type.
>
>>
>> There is one major difference between VLA and (FAM or Pointer array):
>>
>> For VLA, the compiler is responsible for allocating the memory for it,
>> the size assignment and the memory allocation are both done by the
>> compiler at the same time and tied together.
>
> A VLA can also exist on the heap:
>
> char (*buf)[n] = malloc(sizeof(*buf));
Okay. I see.
>
>>
>> But for FAM and pointer arrays, right now, users allocate the memory for them
>> In the source code, so, when we add the “counted_by” attribute, we need to
>> specify the additional requirement for the order of size assignment and
>> memory
>> allocation into the source code, and specify this requirement in the user
>> documentation.
>>
>> Later, if we try to make the bound information of FAM/pointer array into
>> TYPE
>> system, similar as the current VLA, should we also need to move the memory
>> allocation
>> of the FAM/pointer arrays into compiler (similar as VLA too)?
>
> I think memory allocation can be done either
> as an automatic variable or by malloc.
>
> The following works today in GNU C:
>
> int N = ..;
> struct foo { char buf[N]; } x;
> struct foo *p = malloc(sizeof(struct foo));
Yes, tried this, did work. -:) thanks.
Qing
>
> The only limitation today is that the size 'n'
> can not refer to the field member.
>
> struct foo { int n; char buf[.n]; };
>
> I am not yet sure how we would set the size for
> an automatic object, but I have some ideas. Maybe
> simply using an initializer:
>
> struct foo x = { .n = 10 };
>
>
> Martin
>
>>> The later can be built on
>>> vm-types easily because all the FE semantics already
>>> exists.
>>
>> Except the memory allocation part…
>>
>> Do I miss anything here?
>>
>> Qing
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Richard.
>>>>
>>>>> But yes,
>>>>> for full bounds safety we would need the language feature.
>>>>> In C people should start to variably-modified types
>>>>> more. I think we can build perfect bounds safety on top of
>>>>> them in a very good way with only FE changes.
>>>>>
>>>>> All these attributes are just a best effort. But for a while,
>>>>> this will be necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> Martin
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Evaluating at this point requires that the size is correctly set
>>>>>>> before the access to the FAM and the user has to make sure
>>>>>>> this is the case. But to me this requirement would make sense.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Semantically, it could aöso make sense to evaluate the size at a
>>>>>>> later time. But then the reordering becomes problematic again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also I think this would make this feature generally more useful.
>>>>>>> For example, it could work also for others pointers in the struct
>>>>>>> and not just for FAMs. In this case, the struct may already be
>>>>>>> freed when BDOS is called, so it might also not possible to
>>>>>>> access the size member at a later time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
