On 12/16/2013 09:37 AM, Richard Biener wrote:
Kenneth Zadeck <zad...@naturalbridge.com> wrote:
On 12/16/2013 06:19 AM, Richard Biener wrote:
On 12/15/13 7:48 PM, Kenneth Zadeck wrote:
On 12/15/2013 11:40 AM, Richard Sandiford wrote:
Kenneth Zadeck <zad...@naturalbridge.com> writes:
it is certainly true that in order to do an unbounded set of
operations,
you would have to check on every operation. so my suggestion
that we
should remove the checking from the infinite precision would not
support
this. but the reality is that there are currently no places in
the
compiler that do this.
Currently all of the uses of widest-int are one or two operations,
and
the style of code writing is that you do these and then you deal
with
the overflow at the time that you convert the widest-int to a
tree. I
think that it is important to maintain the style of programming
where
for a small finite number of computations do not need to check
until
they convert back.
The problem with making the buffer size so tight is that we do not
have
an adequate reserves to allow this style for any supportable type.
I personally think that 2x + some small n is what we need to have.
i am not as familiar with how this is used (or to be used when all
of
the offset math is converted to use wide-int), but there appear to
be
two uses of multiply. one is the "harmless" mult by 3" and the
other
is where people are trying to compute the size of arrays. These
last
operations do need to be checked for overflow. The question
here is
do you want to force those operations to overflow individually or
do you
want to check when you convert out. Again, i think 2x + some
small
number is what we might want to consider.
It's a fair question, but personally I think checking for overflow
on the operation is much more robust. Checking on conversion
doesn't
allow you to stop thinking about overflow, it just changes the way
you
think about it: rather than handling explicit overflow flags, you
have
to remember to ask "is the range of the unconverted result within
the
range of widest_int", which I bet it is something that would be
easily
forgotten once widest_int & co. are part of the furniture.
E.g. the SPARC operation (picked only because I remember it):
for (i = 0; i < VECTOR_CST_NELTS (arg0); ++i)
{
tree e0 = VECTOR_CST_ELT (arg0, i);
tree e1 = VECTOR_CST_ELT (arg1, i);
bool neg1_ovf, neg2_ovf, add1_ovf, add2_ovf;
tmp = wi::neg (e1, &neg1_ovf);
tmp = wi::add (e0, tmp, SIGNED, &add1_ovf);
if (wi::neg_p (tmp))
tmp = wi::neg (tmp, &neg2_ovf);
else
neg2_ovf = false;
result = wi::add (result, tmp, SIGNED, &add2_ovf);
overflow |= neg1_ovf | neg2_ovf | add1_ovf | add2_ovf;
}
gcc_assert (!overflow);
return wide_int_to_tree (rtype, result);
seems pretty natural. If instead it was modelled as a widest_int
chain without overflow then it would be less obviously correct.
Thanks,
Richard
Let us for the sake of argument assume that this was common code
rather
than code in a particular port, because code in a particular port
can
know more about the environment than common code is allowed to.
My main point is that this code is in wide-int not widest-int
because at
this level the writer of this code actually wants to model what the
target wants to do. So doing the adds in precision and testing
overflow is perfectly fine at every step. But this loop CANNOT be
written in a style where you tested the overflow at the end because
if
this is common code you cannot make any assumptions about the
largest
mode on the machine. If the buffer was 2x + n in size, then it
would
be reasonably safe to assume that the number of elements in the
vector
could be represented in an integer and so you could wait till the
end.
I think that my point was that (and i feel a little uncomfortable
putting words in richi's mouth but i believe that this was his point
early on) was that he thinks of the widest int as an infinite
precision
representation. he was the one who was pushing for the entire rep
to
be done with a large internal (or perhaps unbounded) rep because he
felt
that this was more natural to not have to think about overflow.
He
wanted you to be able to chain a mult and a divide and not see the
product get truncated before the divide was done. The rep that we
have now really sucks with respect to this because widest int
truncates
if you are close to the largest precision on the machine and does
not if
you are small with respect to that.
My other point is that while you think that the example above is
nice,
the experience with double-int is contrary to this. people will
say
(and test) the normal modes and anyone trying to use large modes
will
die a terrible death of a thousand cuts.
Well - the cases that matter in practice are
1) the things we have offset_int for - code that does bit vs. byte
quantity calculations on addresses or address offsets. It used
either HWI before (and probably still does, and thus is buggy) or
double-int. The usual patter was/is to do host_integerp (t, 0)
and then TREE_LOW_CST (t) * BITS_PER_UNIT (oops) or blindly assume
that doing things in double-int works (which it does in practice).
2) passes that want to know whether a single operation overflows
the multiple-operation and then check overflow after-the-fact is
seldomly used - it is, mainly from the frontends which use trees
and thus get a sticky TREE_OVERFLOW. Yes, infinite precision
would make this work as well, and yes, originally I thought of
basing all of wide-int on an internally infinite precision
implementation (and luckily we are close enough that I may end
up fixing the implementation detail to work that way ...).
With the infinite precision internal rep you'd have explicit
truncations and sign-/zero-extensions at the right point and
failing to do that before conversion to tree/RTX could have been
easily turned into ICEs saying we overflowed and nobody cared.
Well. Let's see how the thing we have now works out.
richi,
i think that you miss the point. right now on the x86-64, the max
size
is 128 +64 bits. On my private platform it is 256 + 64 bits.
if, at the tree level, i do a widest-int multiply of two timode values
that are large with respect to their precision, i get different answers
on the two targets. 95% of the existing trunk bugs that we fixed we
because people thought that double-int was big enough so that they did
not have to care. But what you and richard are saying is that you do
need to care (even though none of the code currently does care), but
only for rarely executed cases. With widest-int and a larger buffer we
could can make that expectation true in all of the places where you get
in, do some finite work and get out. In my opinion, being able to do
this is the only reason for widest-int and if this does not work
reliably, then i would be inclined to convert everything to the
explicit
precision where the definition of what is done is rock solid.
Because
to me, if the rep is not completely predictable, then it is not worth
using.
At the moment we do not have the infinite precision code. We have offset._int
which effectively has a precision and widest int which is indeed somewhat
useless. We have fixed int where you specify your desired infinite precision
which is better.
Note that we have shifted the double-int host dependence to a widest-int target
dependence. Which is equally bad.
Richard.
yes, my point is that it does not need to be this bad, we can make the
buffer large enough to hide this, at least for the kind of bounded
computation that we have in the compiler. Having written most of this
code, we tend to get in, do a couple of things and then get out. If
we up the buffer size, that will always work reliably.
I realize that it will not be perfect, in that if you have enough
bounded size computation you would hit the limit. But right now every
multiply (except the ones by 3 in the offset int code) are a source of
failure. We can do a lot better than that by upping the buffer size.
you and i have slightly different experiences here. i did not do a
lot of the offset int code and so i am not as familiar with the
potential for bugs here. But I did a significant amount of the
widest-int code, and for that, 2x + 2 bits makes all the potential
problems go away.
my guess is that the non 3x multiplies in offset-int most likely need to
be checked.
Kenny
Richard.
