On 11 June 2010 02:15, Nick Treleaven <nick.trelea...@btinternet.com> wrote: > On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 17:48:39 +0200 > Jiří Techet <tec...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > I agree it helps, but are there really no successful widespread >> > languages that didn't have corporate backing? >> >
If success = widespread use then python and php? >> >> Unfortunately we're not living in the 70's or 80's, where the best had >> a chance, and there's a lot of software written in the mainstream > > I think that's a bit pessimistic. I too think that it is possible for the best to succeed without corporate backing, but also for "not the best" to succeed with corporate backing. I'd list C (AT&T), Java (Sun), C# (MS), Javascript (Netscape) in that category, and funny, but they all look much the same, maybe the corporate suit has been replaced by the corporate braces { }. > >> languages. These applications won't get rewritten just because some >> better language appeared (or do you plan to rewrite geany in D? :-). >> In the last 15 years the only successful languages were those where >> some big company was behind (Java, C#). > Never re-write whole applications, see KDE 4 for most of the reasons. > It's not normally a good idea to rewrite applications. But new > applications could be written in a language like D or Go (obviously). > > Any successful language will need to interface well with C. > True, its the common interface language between all the others. Which brings up mixed language systems, I've seen a very successful (closed source) system that uses Python as the front end for GUI and scripting where dynamic characteristics are very helpful, and C++ as the backend for the crunching where static characteristics make for good code. >> >> And it's fast. I spend one hour a day just >> >> compiling with C++ code. >> > >> > A D developer says it's faster than Go at compiling, and it has >> > templates: >> > http://www.digitalmars.com/pnews/read.php?server=news.digitalmars.com&group=digitalmars.D&artnum=108831 >> >> Well, it really depends if he was compiling a single file or a library > > The link says: > "So the go compiler compiles 120KLOC in 9.23 seconds. I got curious so I > just tested dmd against Phobos (88KLOC). That takes 1.24 seconds on my > laptop." > > Phobos is D's standard library, and includes templates quite a bit. > >> with many includes. What makes the compilation of C++ slow is that it >> has to parse the same headers again and again every time they are >> included (and all the includes inside the includes). This is >> eliminated in go. If D uses includes, then it will be slow for big >> projects too. > > It doesn't use includes per say, but compiler-generated .di files. C++ > parsing is slow anyway because of templates. Yeah, just try using some of the Boost libraries heavily :-( > > (I think both D and Go have ways to speed up compilation further). The reason I originally said that I wouldn't get into a language discussion is because as entertaining and intellectually stimulating as such discussions are (I subscribe to LtU http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/ ) in reality most of the factors which control the selection of languages are non-technical, tool availability, programmer experience and training costs for switching, and good old fear (will I be blamed for a project failing if I try something new). To give the discussion a Geany flavour (just for the look of it you know, so Enrico doesn't complain we are too OT ;-) this is why Geany should not impose specific workflows or prevent them, we don't know what the "next big thing" will be. And to answer Jiri's question on a previous post, use of functional languages in anger, if you are in Europe the majority of your phone calls are handled by a functional language, Erlang, which Ericsson use to program their exchanges. Large projects, real time, high reliability, fault tolerance, concurrency ... not a bad list. Cheers Lex > > Regards, > Nick > _______________________________________________ > Geany-devel mailing list > Geany-devel@uvena.de > http://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany-devel > _______________________________________________ Geany-devel mailing list Geany-devel@uvena.de http://lists.uvena.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geany-devel