I definitely see the value in using protobufs for traces, but I also
sympathize with Nilay and Erik's arguments.  In particular, many people
don't use trace-driven simulation, so the protobuf dependency actually
doesn't do anything for them.

I hesitate to put more work on Andreas's shoulders, but it seems like the
protobuf code is reasonably well encapsulated; wouldn't it be possible with
a few judiciously placed ifdefs and/or conditional compilation in
SConscript files to stub out the ProtoStream class so that it compiles even
without protobuf, but then generates an error if it is used?  Or is there a
more complex dependency that I'm overlooking?

Thanks,

Steve


On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 6:37 AM, Andreas Hansson <[email protected]>wrote:

> Eric, another minor note on the topic of Scientific Linux, perhaps you can
> convince the sysadmin's to have a look at EPEL
> (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL) both for gperftools and protobuf.
>
> yum install epel-release && yum install protobuf should do the trick :-)
>
> Andreas
>
> On 10/12/2012 14:22, "Andreas Hansson" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Hi Eric,
> >
> >Thanks for your input.
> >
> >The dependency is indeed generating some additional issues in the type of
> >environments you describe, and Scientific Linux does seem to be a bit
> >behind. Luckily, it should not involve more than a configure, make and
> >make install to get it up and running.
> >
> >The big question is: what portion of the users does it affect (I would
> >think most people could get away with installing the package), and are the
> >benefits of protobuf large enough to warrant the additional burden?
> >
> >Independent of the answer to this question, we need a path forward to
> >support input/output of memory traces and execution traces. The protobuf
> >solution seems to be much better than any other option in solving this
> >problem, in many aspects, e.g. portability, size, speed, effort. What do
> >you suggest instead?
> >
> >Kind regards,
> >
> >Andreas
> >
> >On 10/12/2012 11:58, "Erik Tomusk" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>As one of the proverbial users whose experience is under discussion,
> >>maybe I can butt in.
> >>
> >>I think it's important to realize that not everyone uses self-managed
> >>machines with root access. I, for one, don't have root or access to a
> >>package manager on my regular work machine (Scientific Linux 6). SL6
> >>seems to lag RHEL with package support, so as far as I can tell,
> >>protobuf (and even tcmalloc) are not installed and not even available
> >>(
> http://ftp.scientificlinux.org/linux/scientific/6rolling/x86_64/os/Packa
> >>g
> >>es/)
> >>
> >>If I want these libraries, I need to build them and any dependencies
> >>locally from tarballs or convince the admins to do it. If the admins are
> >>convinced and manually build the libs (unlikely), they then need to
> >>schedule reboots for all the machines in the school. Fun fun.
> >>
> >>I could, of course, switch to a self-managed desktop machine, except
> >>that I need to regularly run lots of things on our server farm. This is
> >>where it gets really interesting. Given that the farm admins have a
> >>responsibility to keep the farm running for all the various groups
> >>buying compute resources, there's no way they're going to manually build
> >>libraries not officially supported by the distro and then support those
> >>libraries for the rest of time (I already tried to convince them on
> >>libperftools--no dice). Again I need to build the libraries locally and
> >>then make sure that everything works across a finicky server farm, all
> >>it's various nodes and whatnot.
> >>
> >>Since I've already invested so much time into using gem5, if another
> >>dependency comes on board, I'll just have to make it work (or not
> >>upgrade). I doubt a newbie would go through all this trouble, though.
> >>
> >>-Erik
> >>
> >>
> >>On 09/12/12 16:09, Ali Saidi wrote:
> >>> On Dec 9, 2012, at 8:53 AM, Nilay Vaish wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Sun, 9 Dec 2012, Andreas Hansson wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> May I ask why you see this as a problem? Any Unix/Linux/OSx system
> >>>>>from the last 5+ years has these dependencies as packages (and I bet
> >>>>>they work smoother than e.g. swig :-)
> >>>>>
> >>>> I doubt that this statement is true. I am using RHEL 6 and it does not
> >>>>have protoc installed. I am guessing that would mean people who use
> >>>>Fedora will not have it installed either. Ubuntu (12.10) has it. I
> >>>>don't know about Mint or other distributions.
> >>> As far as package availability protobufs is available since Fedora 16
> >>>as well as EL6. It's also available in all currently supported Ubuntu
> >>>versions as well as mint and debian and just about everything else:
> >>>http://pkgs.org/search/?keyword=protobuf
> >>>
> >>> So I think package availability is a separate concern from user
> >>>experience. It's absolutely true that there would be another dependency,
> >>>the question in my mind is that dependency a larger burden than we
> >>>currently expect from the user and are the benefits of the library worth
> >>>it? I think this is the best possible path toward being able to output
> >>>memory traces, which we do seem to get a fair number of requests for on
> >>>the mailing list.
> >>>
> >>>> This may not affect ARM, but one of the reasons why I am involved with
> >>>>gem5 is that I would like people in architecture to be using the
> >>>>simulator that I have contributed to.
> >>> I think ARM is completely committed making gem5 successful in the
> >>>broader architecture community, as evidenced by the large number of
> >>>change sets with committers from ARM.
> >>>
> >>> Ali
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> [email protected]
> >>> http://m5sim.org/mailman/listinfo/gem5-dev
> >>>
> >>
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