I guess I was just reacting to the complete dismissal by Noel. In
the middle of a vote on the Geronimo PMC, we get a message that
effectively the Incubator has stepped in and has take over this
proposal. Now, stop and wait before responding to that statement and
let me explain. The normal process, as I understand it, for a new
podling is a proposal is posted to a some dev list saying, "I'd like
to start a project in the incubator to create X, are you willing to
sponsor it?" The PMC evaluates it and votes. This normal process
was interrupted by Noel simply stating that the Incubator has decided
to sponsor it. There was no public discussion and this proposal was
never even presented to the Incubator PMC for sponsorship. I have
never seen this happen before and it came with a very dismissive note
(my reading).
I find it very frustrating that in my mind the policies and
procedures in the incubator keep changing. When I point this out I
get accused of various things such as "protecting turf". Greg, I can
understand why you see it that way, but I am simply trying to follow
policy, precedent and the Apache Way. Anyway, no need to respond,
I'm just frustrated.
I'm going to try to stay out of the rest of this discussion, but
before I go, I suggest that ALL of you go back to your open source
roots and reexamine this whole situation. There are a very few
people in this discussion that actually want to work on a BPEL engine
or integrate it into a project. If your not one of them, take a step
back and let the community decide how they want to handle the code.
If the want to work together, we should support them. If the don't
want to work together and decide to fork it into three competing
projects, we should support them. If they want to hard code in
dependencies on any technology, we should support them. If they want
to rewrite it in COBOL, we should support them. They are the
community and we should support them.
-dain
/me crawls back under his flame proof rock
On Feb 15, 2006, at 4:11 PM, Greg Stein wrote:
[trimmed individuals and pmc's from the cc: list]
On Wed, Feb 15, 2006 at 03:22:23PM -0800, Dain Sundstrom wrote:
On Feb 15, 2006, at 3:09 PM, Noel J. Bergman wrote:
Sanjiva,
- Given the, um, strong feelings expressed by so many people about
this project, how about if we get the Incubator PMC to sponsor this
poddling?
Agreed. That is what I said to the Geronimo PMC, as well. The
Incubator PMC will sponsor the project.
...
I know it doesn't mean much, but I personally would like to see this
as a Geronimo sponsored project. We are the ones that have taken the
licks over this for the past 2 weeks and would really like to work to
carry this through the full process.
So to flip things around on you...
There is no need for the Incubator PMC to sponsor. The Geronimo
PMC will sponsor the project.
Thanks for your understanding.
A number of folks here in the Incubator believe it is best to
establish a community with no prior ties, and have repeated that on a
number of occasions (including Sanjiva's and Noel's comments today).
The general belief is that this will create a better community around
the ASF's BPEL work.
Part of the problem that I'm seeing is you use of "we" in your
message. Who is "we"? And that leads to, who is "not we"? Why is there
a partition? I believe this is one of the primary issues that is being
dealt with right now, Dain. You are dividing BPEL workers into a "we"
and "others" camp.
Or, let's just say that was a random term to refer to the Geronimo
project and you're not really seeing two groups. i.e. not fair of me
to assign that way of thinking to you. Okay. So moving on: why is it
important for this to be Geronimo sponsored? Why? Seriously. WTF does
it matter?
We've already said the IP clearance paperwork is the same no matter
what. Great. Get that done and start working. When BPEL is ready to
graduate, then we look at where it goes. Quite possibly Geronimo. But
what does it matter that Geronimo is the sponsor? Why are you so keyed
in on that?
I can clearly see benefits with "absence of ties". I don't see the
benefit of Geronimo sponsoring that you're seeing. And without that
understanding, then I get to make up crazy reasons :-P
Cheers,
-g
--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/
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