On 22 Sep 2011, at 11:20, Robert Burrell Donkin wrote: > Hi Sander > > I'm glad you asked these questions here: asking well researched > questions is the best way to improve our process and documentation > > but just for the record, the legal-discuss list[1] is the right place > for projects to ask almost all questions about copyright (being > public, it's not appropriate for some sensitive issues) > > On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Sander van der Waal > <sander.vanderw...@oucs.ox.ac.uk> wrote: >> I'm trying to get my head around the IP clearance process and >> specifically about what happens to the copyright ownership during that >> process. Although IP clearance gets discussed once in a while on this >> list I couldn't find a clear answer in the archives on this specific >> point. > > In general Apache prefers to license with no change copyright ownership. > >> When a project with a pre-existing code base joins the incubator, does >> the copyright of that code base get transferred to the ASF or will it be >> licensed to the ASF? > > Almost always through a license > >> Reading through the IP clearance guide [1], it mentions the Software >> Grant Agreement (SGA) and going to the text [2] it states that it is a >> License Agreement to grant a license to the ASF. Also the CCLA [3] and >> the ICLA [4] are license agreements. I interpret that to mean that the >> copyright ownership remains with the licensor and only a license is >> granted. > > That is my understanding > > IMHO an explicit explanation of these point would improve the > documentation. It'd be great if someone contributed an improved > version :-) > >> On the other hand, the ASF general FAQ states that the copyright of ASF >> projects is owned by the ASF, more specifically "The members own the >> code" [5]. > > It is the collective copyright that is owned by Apache > > Projects are composed by a selection process undertaken by the PMC > from a variety of contributions. Each contributor owns the copyright > in their patch but the creative act of composition entitles Apache to > claim collective copyright for the final work. This collective > copyright claim is noted in the NOTICE. The header for each document > should acknowledge that Apache has licensed (from the original > contributions) the rights required to offer the document to the public > under the Apache License, Version 2 but almost always will not contain > a copyright claim. > > If the documentation is missing this explanation then it'd be great if > someone contributed an improved version :-)
This is a really good explanation - thanks Robert! I'd been wondering the same thing as Sander. > >> Also the IP Clearance template [6] has a check that says >> "Check and make sure that the papers that transfer rights to the ASF >> been received." But it seems that the SGA and *CLAs are just license >> agreements and don't include a transferral of rights? I must be missing >> something obvious here but I'm not sure what. > > Copyright licenses grants the licensee rights otherwise restricted by > copyright law. "Transfer" might be taken to mean "exclusive" so > "assign" would be a better choice. > > But this could be phrased more more clearly and explained explicitly. > It'd be great if someone contributed an improved version :-) > >> Going through a few NOTICE files of projects doesn't really make it >> clearer, because some only specify the ASF as copyright owner and others >> specify in general terms that it "includes software [originally] >> developed at X". > > The standard NOTICE should include note both the collective copyright > and that Apache developed the software > >> I know copyright ownership might not be a big deal to many here, but we >> are dealing with many open source projects where the project lead has >> a very strong sense of ownership over the code. Besides educating them >> about the issues I want to make sure I get the facts right. > > Thanks for taking the time to frame good questions :-) > > The documentation here in the Incubator is developed by the community > for the community. The best podlings change the Incubator more than > the Incubation process changes them. Karma is earned here at Apache > through contribution. > > The documentation needs improvement in this area. I'd be glad to > review patches and work with anyone would could find some cycles to > contribute. Anyone want to start by diving in with suggestions? > > Robert > > [1] http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/www-legal-discuss/ > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
