Hi, Inputs from a current Curator user:
I followed one year ago the public thread Patrick mentionned and was surprised to see the lack of interest for an higher level Zk client. If this discussion happened now, maybe the interest would be different, but still, I think Curator should be hosted in its own community for the following reasons: 1.- I would love to have a client that support multiple server types. I use for example Curator to take distributed locks on Zk servers, but other servers (Hazelcast...) also implement this functionality. Simply by configuration, I would love Curator to give me access to those servers without chaning my code. Ok, This is not in the proposal scope, but having a separate community opens to door to those type of contributions. Obviously, if Curator is part of Zookeeper, this will be more difficult. 2.- Zookeeper is getting more and more functionalities (Bookeeper, Hedwig...) but not all of these functionalities may find an client part in Curator. This is why (see my first point), Curator should not be stricly a full Zk client, but a client providing access in some way to some distributed server functions. 3.- Client dev (internal machinery such injection, configuration...) is quite different from server dev. Some client architecture decisions should not be depende on server dev habits and server developers tend to negligate clients. I feel everyday the pain of real hadoop/hbase/casssandra/... client (I mean without the server jars). This is evolving, but not having a separate project for client does not help. HTTP client have never been developer in server projects. I agree that hosting in the same community can create some convergence and ease the communication (API, bug solving...), but I still feel Curator deserves a dedicated community, especially for the first reason I have listed (client towards multiple servers). Thx, Eric On 26/02/2013 06:10, Patrick Hunt wrote: > On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 7:10 PM, Greg Stein <gst...@gmail.com> wrote: >> My concern is that we're looking at two "new" committers, rather than >> a Curator community. Following normal Incubator work, Curator would >> build a community for itself. But then we'd have a community >> *distinct* from that of Zookeeper. And it really looks like this >> should be part of Zookeeper itself -- a more capable and easier-to-use >> client. >> >> So I question the incubation of this. Why do we want to build a >> new/separate project? Why isn't this just part of Zookeeper right from >> the start? >> >> I would suggest that this work is placed on a branch within Zookeeper. >> That Jordan and Jay become committers on that branch (not necessarily >> Zookeeper trunk). Over time, the branch can be folded into trunk, >> along with all the various tests, doc, and other artifacts that I see >> in the GitHub repository. And hopefully that Jordan and Jay become >> regular committers (and PMC members!) of the Zookeeper project itself. >> >> The current Zookeeper client can remain for backwards compat, and the >> Curator work can become the next-gen client. >> >> Honestly, in my opnion, incubating this project seems like it would >> create a distinct community, and really doesn't seem like it would >> serve the Zookeeper community. >> >> All that said, I am not familiar with the Zookeeper or Curator >> communities. But from this read, I don't think Incubation is the right >> approach. I would rather push for a more direct incorporation of >> Curator directly into Zookeeper. (use the short-form IP clearance) ... >> so, unless somebody can help me understand the communities and >> situation better, I'm -1 (binding) on this incubation. I'd rather see >> combined, rather than distinct, communities from the start. > > The Curator library is built upon the current ZooKeeper client > libraries. They are an extension that implements higher level use > cases (what we call "recipes" in ZK) whereas the ZK libraries > implement lower level primitives. An analogy might be Apache Crunch > (recently graduated to TLP) and MapReduce. Also, not everyone agrees > with Jordan's assessment that Curator is 'better" than (or a > replacement for) the existing client libraries. > > The ZK community discussed incorporating the Curator code about a year > ago. At that time there wasn't interest to adopt these libraries into > ZK itself. My belief is that if Curator were to go through incubation > the ZK community would be more likely to adopt it. Similar to how > HCatalog spun off to work on the metastore and recently merged back > into Hive. If there's significant overlap in the Curator podling > community and the ZK community that will be a strong indication that > they should be merged (my belief). If not it would have the > opportunity to go TLP. > > Here's my report (ZooKeeper) to the board in Dec 2011 and the response > I received. This is one of the reasons I advised Jordan to go the > incubator approach. There's also the discussion thread on ZooKeeper > dev if you want more insight. > >>> A discussion is currently under way regarding the possibility of> merging >>> the recently open sourced "Curator" source base from> Netflix. These are >>> client implementations of ZooKeeper "recipes"> (e.g. leadership election, >>> group membership, etc...) which simplify> the act of using ZooKeeper in >>> client side applications.>> The authors of Curator are unwilling to join >>> the incubator, this is> based on their past experience as well as some of >>> the ongoing issues> they are seeing wrt projects entering the incubator. >>> They have> expressed a preference to come in either as a subproject or as >>> a> separate release artifact of the TLP. >> >> to which the board responded: >> >> Doug Cutting (chairman): >> + Long-term, do you think that Curator will have an >> + indepdendent community from Zookeeper? If so, then it >> + ought to enter through the Incubator. If not then the >> + code might still enter through the incubator for >> + resolution of IP issues, but then transfer relatively >> + quickly to live under the Zookeeper PMC. Or the >> + Zookeeper PMC could directly adopt the code, although >> + you might not immediately add its committers to the >> + project but rather have them first contribute patches >> + through the normal process until their community merit >> + is established. >> >> Sam Ruby: >> + suggested that the "short form" of the incubator's IP clearance >> process would be appropriate if Zookeeper directly adopts this code. >> >> The short form can be found here: >> http://incubator.apache.org/ip-clearance/index.html > > > Regards, > > Patrick > >> >> On Mon, Feb 25, 2013 at 8:14 PM, Jordan Zimmerman >> <jor...@jordanzimmerman.com> wrote: >>> Hello, >>> >>> I would like to propose that Curator to be an Apache Incubator project. >>> >>> The proposal can be found here: >>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/CuratorProposal >>> >>> I have included the contents of the proposal below. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> >>> Jordan Zimmerman >>> >>> =================== >>> >>> = Curator - ZooKeeper client wrapper and rich ZooKeeper framework = >>> >>> == Abstract == >>> >>> Curator is a set of Java libraries that make using Apache ZooKeeper much >>> easier. While ZooKeeper comes bundled with a Java client, using the client >>> is non-trivial and error prone. >>> >>> == Proposal == >>> >>> Curator is a set of Java libraries that make using Apache ZooKeeper much >>> easier. While ZooKeeper comes bundled with a Java client, using the client >>> is non-trivial and error prone. It consists of three components that build >>> on each other. Curator Client is a replacement for the bundled ZooKeeper >>> class that takes care of some low-level housekeeping and provides some >>> useful utilities. Curator Framework is a high-level API that greatly >>> simplifies using ZooKeeper. It adds many features that build on ZooKeeper >>> and handles the complexity of managing connections to the ZooKeeper cluster >>> and retrying operations. Curator Recipes consists of implementations of >>> some of the common ZooKeeper ?recipes?. Additionally, Curator Test is >>> included which includes utilities to help with unit testing ZooKeeper-based >>> applications. >>> >>> == Background == >>> >>> Curator was initially developed by Netflix to make writing ZooKeeper-based >>> applications easier and more reliable. Curator was open-sourced by Netflix >>> on !GitHub as an Apache 2.0 licensed project in July 2011. During this time >>> Curator has been formally released many times and has gained widespread >>> adoption. >>> >>> == Rationale == >>> >>> New users of ZooKeeper are surprised to learn that a significant amount of >>> connection management must be done manually. For example, when the >>> ZooKeeper client connects to the ensemble it must negotiate a new session, >>> etc. This takes some time. If you use a ZooKeeper client API before the >>> connection process has completed, ZooKeeper will throw an exception. These >>> types of exceptions are referred to as ?recoverable? errors. >>> Curator automatically handles connection management, greatly simplifying >>> client code. Instead of directly using the ZooKeeper APIs you use Curator >>> APIs that internally check for connection completion and wrap each >>> ZooKeeper API in a retry loop. Curator uses a retry mechanism to handle >>> recoverable errors and automatically retry operations. The method of retry >>> is customizable. Curator comes bundled with several implementations >>> (ExponentialBackoffRetry, etc.) or custom implementations can be written. >>> >>> The ZooKeeper documentation describes many possible uses for ZooKeeper >>> calling each a ?recipe?. While the distribution comes bundled with a few >>> implementations of these recipes, most ZooKeeper users will need to >>> manually implement one or more of the recipes. Implementing a ZooKeeper >>> recipe is not trivial. Besides the connection handling issues, there are >>> numerous edge cases that are not well documented that must be considered. >>> For example, many recipes require that an ephemeral-sequential node be >>> created. New users of ZooKeeper will not know that there is an edge case in >>> ephemeral-sequential node creation that requires you to put a special >>> ?marker? in the node?s name so that you can search for the created node if >>> an I/O failure occurs. This is but one of many edge cases that are not well >>> documented but are handled by Curator. >>> >>> = Current Status = >>> >>> == Meritocracy == >>> >>> Curator was initially developed by Jordan Zimmerman in 2011 at Netflix. >>> Developers external to Netflix provided feedback, suggested features and >>> fixes and implemented extensions of Curator. Netflix's engineering team has >>> since maintained the project and has been dedicated towards its >>> improvement. Contributors to Curator include developers from multiple >>> organizations around the world. Curator will be a meritocracy as it enters >>> the Incubator and beyond. >>> >>> == Community == >>> >>> Curator is currently used by a number of organizations all over the world. >>> Curator has an active and growing user and developer community with active >>> participation in the [[http://groups.google.com/group/curator-users]] >>> mailing list and at its !Github home: >>> [[https://github.com/Netflix/curator]]. >>> >>> Since open sourcing the project, there have been fifteen individuals from >>> various organizations who have contributed code. >>> >>> == Core Developers == >>> >>> The core developers for Curator are: >>> * Jordan Zimmerman >>> * Jay Zarfoss >>> >>> Jordan has contributed towards Apache ZooKeeper and both Jordan and Jay are >>> familiar with Apache principles and philosophy for community driven >>> software development. >>> >>> == Alignment == >>> >>> Curator is a natural complement for Apache ZooKeeper. Java users of >>> ZooKeeper will naturally want to use Curator. When Curator graduates from >>> Incubator it may be useful to distribute Curator artifacts as part of >>> ZooKeeper releases as the preferred/recommended client side library. >>> Further, at graduation a determination can be made as to whether Curator >>> should become a Top Level Project or be merged into ZooKeeper itself. >>> >>> = Known Risks = >>> >>> == Orphaned Products == >>> >>> Curator is already deployed in production at multiple companies and they >>> are actively participating in creating new features. Curator is getting >>> traction with developers and thus the risks of it being orphaned are >>> minimal. >>> >>> == Inexperience with Open Source == >>> >>> All code developed for Curator has been open sourced by Netflix under >>> Apache 2.0 license. All committers to Curator are intimately familiar with >>> the Apache model for open-source development and are experienced with >>> working with new contributors. >>> >>> == Homogeneous Developers == >>> >>> The initial committers are from a single organization. However, we expect >>> that once approved for incubation, the project will attract new >>> contributors from diverse organizations and will thus grow organically. The >>> submission of patches from developers from several different organizations >>> is a strong indication that Curator will be widely adopted. >>> >>> == Reliance on Salaried Developers == >>> >>> It is expected that Curator will be developed on salaried and volunteer >>> time, although all of the initial developers will work on it mainly on >>> salaried time. >>> >>> == Relationships with Other Apache Products == >>> >>> Curator depends upon other Apache Projects: Apache ZooKeeper, Apache Log4J, >>> and multiple Apache Commons components. Its build depends upon Apache >>> Maven. Notably, there is interest from other Apache Projects such as HBase >>> in adopting Curator as the client library for ZooKeeper. Apache James >>> Mailbox has already incorporated Curator. >>> >>> == An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand == >>> >>> We would like Curator to become an Apache project to further foster a >>> healthy community of contributors and consumers around the project. Since >>> Curator directly interacts with Apache ZooKeeper and solves an important >>> problem of many ZooKeeper users, residing in the Apache Software Foundation >>> will increase interaction with the larger community. >>> >>> = Documentation = >>> >>> * Curator wiki at GitHub: https://github.com/Netflix/curator/wiki >>> * Curator issues at GitHub: https://github.com/Netflix/curator/issues >>> * Curator javadoc at GitHub: http://netflix.github.com/curator/doc/ >>> >>> = Initial Source = >>> >>> * git://github.com/Netflix/curator.git >>> >>> == Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan == >>> >>> * The initial source is already licensed under the Apache License, >>> Version 2.0. https://github.com/Netflix/curator/blob/master/LICENSE.txt >>> >>> == External Dependencies == >>> >>> The required external dependencies are all Apache License or compatible >>> licenses. Following components with non-Apache licenses are enumerated: >>> >>> * org.slf4j: MIT-like License >>> * org.mockito: MIT-like License >>> >>> == Cryptography == >>> >>> Curator contains no known cryptography. >>> >>> = Required Resources = >>> >>> == Mailing lists == >>> >>> * curator-private (with moderated subscriptions) >>> * curator-dev >>> * curator-commits >>> * curator-user >>> >>> == Github Repositories == >>> >>> http://github.com/apache/curator git://git.apache.org/curator.git >>> >>> == Issue Tracking == >>> >>> JIRA Curator (CURATOR) >>> >>> == Other Resources == >>> >>> The existing code already has unit and integration tests so we would like a >>> Jenkins instance to run them whenever a new patch is submitted. This can be >>> added after project creation. >>> >>> = Initial Committers = >>> >>> * Jordan Zimmerman (jzimmerman at netflix dot com) >>> * Jay Zarfoss (jzarfoss at netflix dot com) >>> >>> = Affiliations = >>> >>> * Jordan Zimmerman, Netflix >>> * Jay Zarfoss, Netflix >>> >>> = Sponsors = >>> >>> == Champion == >>> >>> * Patrick Hunt >>> >>> == Nominated Mentors == >>> >>> * Patrick Hunt >>> * Enis S�ztutar >>> * Mahadev Konar >>> >>> == Sponsoring Entity == >>> >>> * Apache Incubator PMC >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
