Hi Bill/Supun, Sorry for not being a little more clear. I was asking more about how the Heron community would seek to engage with Storm community at the *community* level as opposed to the technical level (i.e. “Community over Code”).
I’ve been asked by many why this has never happened, and have always struggled to answer. Maybe you could help answer that question as well as if and how that might change if Heron were to incubate. Another quick question: The proposal mentions Heron being used in production at Google, but some Google employees I recently spoke to seemed to contradict that. Could you explain? Note that’s nothing that would preclude the project from incubating, I’m just curious. -Taylor > On Jun 14, 2017, at 7:35 AM, Supun Kamburugamuve <supu...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Taylor, > > For me, one of the interesting differences between Heron and Storm is the > execution model. Storm uses a shared memory model while Heron uses a > process based model. It will be interesting to see how these two evolve. > > Thanks, > Supun.. > > On Mon, Jun 12, 2017 at 4:15 PM, Bill Graham <billgra...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Taylor, >> >> Thanks for the mentor offer, we'd be glad to have your help. >> >> I think the best place for collaboration would be around the evolution of >> the API. In addition we plan to look more into DSL solutions which we could >> potentially collaborate on. This could be Trident, or Beam or something >> else, but there could be synergies for future development here. >> >> thanks, >> Bill >> >> On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 8:53 PM, P. Taylor Goetz <ptgo...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Bill, >>> >>> Could you comment on how/if the Heron community would be willing to work >>> with the Storm community? I've seen a number of new features in Storm >> being >>> ported to Heron, but I have yet to see any attempt by the Heron community >>> to engage with the Apache Storm community. >>> >>> I don't think it would be too far off to say that the relationship >> between >>> Heron and Apache Storm has been somewhat adversarial. The pre- and >>> post-open sourcing marketing around Heron seemed, at least to me, >> somewhat >>> aggressively negative toward Storm. >>> >>> As a peer to Apache Storm, how would the proposed "Apache Heron" >> community >>> work to collaborate with the Storm community? If Heron is adopting API >>> changes in Storm, then it seems there is an opportunity for >> collaboration. >>> >>> Don't take any of this as an objection to incubating the project. I would >>> support it. I would also be willing to be a mentor, if you would consider >>> taking on another. >>> >>> -Taylor >>> >>>> On Jun 8, 2017, at 1:23 PM, Bill Graham <billgra...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear Apache Incubator Community, >>>> >>>> We are excited to share our proposal for discussion and feedback >>>> for entering Apache Incubation. Heron is a real-time, distributed, >>>> fault-tolerant stream processing engine. >>>> >>>> Our proposal can be found at https://wiki.apache.org/ >>> incubator/HeronProposal >>>> and is included below. >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank you, >>>> >>>> Bill Graham on behalf of the Heron developers >>>> >>>> >>>> # Heron Proposal >>>> >>>> ## Abstract >>>> Heron is a real-time, distributed, fault-tolerant stream processing >>> engine >>>> initially developed by Twitter. >>>> >>>> ## Proposal >>>> >>>> Heron is a real-time stream processing engine built for high >> performance, >>>> ease of manageability, performance predictability and developer >>>> productivity[1]. We wish to develop a community around Heron to >> increase >>>> contributions and see Heron thrive in an open forum. >>>> >>>> ## Background >>>> >>>> Heron provides the ability for developers to compose directed acyclic >>>> graphs (DAGs) of real-time query execution logic (i.e. a topology) and >>>> submit the topology to execute on a pluggable job scheduling system >>> (e.g., >>>> Apache Aurora, YARN, Marathon, etc). Users can employ either the native >>>> Heron API or the Apache Storm API to develop the topology. Heron >> supports >>>> the Storm API for ease of migration, but beyond that Heron’s >> architecture >>>> differs considerably from Storm’s. >>>> >>>> Users submit a topology to the scheduler using the Heron client, which >>> uses >>>> the Heron binary libraries to deploy all daemons required to run and >>> manage >>>> the topology. The topology therefore has no reliance on centrally >> managed >>>> Heron services, only on a generic job scheduling system, which lends >>> itself >>>> well to be run on top of Apache Aurora/Mesos or Apache Hadoop/YARN >> (among >>>> others). >>>> >>>> The scheduler runs each topology as a job consisting of multiple >>>> containers. One of the containers runs the topology master, responsible >>> for >>>> managing the topology. The remaining containers each runs a stream >>> manager >>>> responsible for data routing, a metrics manager that collects and >> reports >>>> various metrics and a number of processes called Heron instances which >>> run >>>> the user-defined logic on the stream of tuples. Parallelism is achieved >>> via >>>> process-based isolation of Heron instances, which provides predictable >>>> performance while simplifying debugging. The containers are allocated >> and >>>> managed by the scheduler framework based on resource availability of >>> nodes >>>> in the cluster. The metadata for the topology, such as the physical >> plan >>>> and execution details, are stored in the pluggable Heron State Manager >>>> (e.g. Apache ZooKeeper). >>>> >>>> ## Rationale >>>> >>>> Heron is a general-purpose, modular and extensible platform that can be >>>> leveraged to support common, real-time analytics use cases. There is an >>>> increasing demand for open-source, scalable real-time analytics >> systems. >>> We >>>> believe that Heron can be leveraged by other organizations to build >>>> streaming applications that can benefit from its robustness, high >>>> performance, adaptability to cloud environments and ease of use. >>> Moreover, >>>> we hope that open-sourcing Heron will help to further evolve the >>> technology >>>> as the project attracts contributors with diverse backgrounds and areas >>> of >>>> expertise. >>>> >>>> We believe the Apache foundation is a great fit as the long-term home >> for >>>> Heron, as it provides an established process for community-driven >>>> development and decision making by consensus. This is exactly the model >>> we >>>> want for future Heron development. >>>> >>>> ## Initial Goals >>>> >>>> * Move the existing codebase, website, documentation, and mailing lists >>> to >>>> Apache-hosted infrastructure. >>>> * Integrate with the Apache development process. >>>> * Ensure all dependencies are compliant with Apache License version >> 2.0. >>>> * Incrementally develop and release per Apache guidelines. >>>> >>>> ## Current Status >>>> >>>> Heron is a stable project used in production at Twitter since 2014 and >>> open >>>> sourced under the ASL v2 license in 2016. The Heron source code is >>>> currently hosted at github.com (https://github.com/twitter/heron), >> which >>>> will seed the Apache git repository. >>>> >>>> ### Meritocracy >>>> >>>> By submitting this incubator proposal, we’re expressing our intent to >>> build >>>> a diverse developer community around Heron that will conduct itself >>>> according to The Apache Way and use a meritocratic means of building >> it's >>>> committer base. Several companies and universities have already >> expressed >>>> interest in and contributed to Heron. Our goal is to grow the Heron >>>> community by encouraging open communication, contribution and >>> participation >>>> of all types, and ensuring that contributors are recognized >>> appropriately. >>>> >>>> ### Community >>>> >>>> Heron is currently being used by Twitter, Google, Machine Zone and >>>> ndustrial.io and has received significant contributions by Microsoft >> and >>>> Streamlio. By bringing Heron into the Apache ecosystem, we believe we >> can >>>> attract even more developers who are interested in creating real-time >>>> systems to build the project's contributor base. >>>> >>>> ### Core Developers >>>> >>>> Current core developers are engineers from Twitter, Google, Microsoft >> and >>>> Streamlio. >>>> >>>> ### Alignment >>>> >>>> Heron utilizes a number of Apache technologies. Heron leverages Apache >>>> ZooKeeper for coordination and has scheduler implementations to >> integrate >>>> with Apache Mesos, Apache Aurora and Apache Hadoop's YARN (via Apache >>> REEF) >>>> as well as spout implementations to integrate with Apache Kafka and >>> metrics >>>> implementations to integrate with Scribe. Heron also implements the >>> Apache >>>> Storm user-level API, which allows topologies written against Storm to >>> run >>>> in Heron. We believe that having Heron at Apache will help further the >>>> growth of the streaming compute community, as well as encourage >>> cooperation >>>> and developer cross pollination with other Apache projects. >>>> >>>> ## Known Risks >>>> >>>> ### Orphaned Products >>>> >>>> The risk of the Heron project being abandoned is minimal. It is used in >>>> production at Twitter and Google and other companies are evaluating or >>>> adopting it for production use. >>>> >>>> ### Inexperience with Open Source >>>> >>>> All of the core contributors to the project have considerable >> experience >>>> with open source software development. Bill Graham[2], Ashvin >> Agrawal[3] >>>> and Supun Kamburugamuve[4], committers on the project, are PMCs on >> other >>>> Apache projects and Bill and Ashvin have gone through the Apache >>> incubator >>>> process. Twitter has already donated numerous projects to the ASF >> (e.g., >>>> Apache Mesos, Apache Aurora, Apache Parquet). We also plan to be >> mentored >>>> by experienced ASF members that can help with any roadblocks. >>>> >>>> ### Homogenous Developers >>>> >>>> Initial committers come from 5 separate organizations. Our intention is >>>> increase the diversity of contributing developers and their >> affiliations. >>>> To date github contributions have come from approximately 50 >> contributors >>>> from outside the Twitter team. >>>> >>>> ### Reliance on Salaried Developers >>>> >>>> It is expected that Heron development will occur on both salaried time >>> and >>>> on volunteer time. The majority of initial committers are paid by their >>>> employers to contribute to this project. We are committed to recruiting >>>> additional committers from other organizations as well as non-salaried >>>> committers to join project. >>>> >>>> ### Relationships with Other Apache Products >>>> >>>> As mentioned in the Alignment section, Heron implements the Apache >> Storm >>>> API and integrates with multiple Apache schedulers (Apache Mesos, >> Apache >>>> Aurora and Apache Hadoop's YARN) as well as Apache ZooKeeper and Apache >>>> Thrift. >>>> >>>> ### An Excessive Fascination with the Apache Brand >>>> >>>> Heron's popularity is growing in the streaming compute space and we are >>>> long time supporters of the Apache brand. This proposal is not for the >>>> purpose of generating publicity through. Rather, the primary benefits >> to >>>> joining Apache are those of community building and open decision making >>>> outlined in the Rationale section. >>>> >>>> ## Documentation >>>> >>>> This proposal exists online as http://wiki.apache.org/ >>>> incubator/HeronProposal. Extensive documentation can be found on github >>> at >>>> https://twitter.github.io/heron and the source code is well >> documented. >>>> >>>> ## Source and Intellectual Property Submission Plan >>>> >>>> The Heron codebase is currently hosted on Github: >>>> https://github.com/twitter/heron. During incubation, the codebase will >>> be >>>> migrated to Apache infrastructure. The source code is already ASF 2.0 >>>> licensed. >>>> >>>> ## External Dependencies >>>> >>>> All external libraries have ASF 2.0 compatible licenses except for >>> pylint. >>>> The pylint library is GPL licensed, but is only used for pre-build >> Python >>>> style checks and is neither bundled with, nor relied upon by, the Heron >>>> source or binary release artifacts. >>>> >>>> ## Cryptography >>>> >>>> Heron does not use any cryptography libraries. >>>> >>>> ## Required Resources >>>> >>>> ### Mailing lists >>>> >>>> priv...@heron.incubator.apache.org (with moderated subscriptions) >>>> d...@heron.incubator.apache.org >>>> comm...@heron.incubator.apache.org >>>> u...@heron.incubator.apache.org >>>> >>>> ## Subversion Directory >>>> >>>> Git is the preferred source control system: git://git.apache.org/heron >>>> >>>> ## Issue Tracking >>>> >>>> JIRA: Heron (HERON) >>>> >>>> ## Initial Committers >>>> >>>> * Andrew Jorgensen (andrew at andrewjorgensen dot com) >>>> * Ashvin Agrawal (ashvin at apache dot org)* >>>> * Avrilia Floratou (avrilia dot floratou at gmail dot com) >>>> * Bill Graham (billgraham at apache dot org)* >>>> * Brian Hatfield (bmhatfield at gmail dot com) >>>> * Chris Kellogg (cckellogg at gmail dot com) >>>> * Huijun Wu (huijun dot wu dot 2010 at gmail dot com) >>>> * Karthik Ramasamy (karthik at gmail dot com) >>>> * Maosong Fu (maosongfu at gmail dot com) >>>> * Neng Lu(freeneng at gmail dot com) >>>> * Runhang Li (obj dot runhang at gmail dot com) >>>> * Sanjeev Kulkarni (sanjeevrk at gmail dot com) >>>> * Supun Kamburugamuve (supun at apache dot org)* >>>> * Thomas Sun (tom dot ssf at gmail dot com) >>>> * Yaliang Wang (yaliang dot w dot wang at ieee dot org) >>>> >>>> ## Affiliations >>>> >>>> * Andrew Jorgensen (Google) >>>> * Ashvin Agrawal (Microsoft) >>>> * Avrilia Floratou (Microsoft) >>>> * Bill Graham (Twitter) >>>> * Brian Hatfield (Google) >>>> * Chris Kellogg (Twitter) >>>> * Huijun Wu (Twitter) >>>> * Karthik Ramasamy (Streamlio) >>>> * Maosong Fu (Twitter) >>>> * Neng Lu (Twitter) >>>> * Runhang Li (Twitter) >>>> * Sanjeev Kulkarni (Streamlio) >>>> * Supun Kamburugamuve (Indiana University) >>>> * Thomas Sun (Twitter) >>>> * Yaliang Wang (Twitter) >>>> >>>> ## Sponsors >>>> >>>> ### Champion >>>> >>>> * Julien Le Dem (julien at apache dot org) >>>> >>>> ### Nominated Mentors >>>> >>>> * Jake Farrell (jfarrell at apache dot org) >>>> * Jacques Nadeau (jacques at apache dot org) >>>> * Julien Le Dem (julien at apache dot org) >>>> >>>> ### Sponsoring Entity >>>> >>>> The Apache Incubator >>>> >>>> ### Footnotes >>>> >>>> 1 - Papers detailing Heron are available at http://dl.acm.org/citation >> . >>>> cfm?id=2742788 and http://sites.computer.org/debull/A15dec/p15.pdf. >>>> 2 - http://home.apache.org/phonebook.html?uid=billgraham >>>> 3 - http://home.apache.org/phonebook.html?uid=ashvin >>>> 4 - http://home.apache.org/phonebook.html?uid=supun >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org >>> >>> >> > > > > -- > Supun Kamburugamuve > Member, Apache Software Foundation; http://www.apache.org > E-mail: supun@apache.o <supu...@gmail.com>rg; Mobile: +1 812 219 2563 > <(812)%20219-2563> --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
