On Sat, Oct 12, 2002 at 12:27:17PM -0400, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
...
> Why not bring into Jmeter?
Frank tried [1] and was met with the same silence that greeted his ealier
general@jakarta email [2].
Anyone wanting to have a play, the url is:
http://www.PushToTest.com/ptt
Jon might even like it, as it uses a real scripting language (Jython) to
script HTTP tests, rather than XML. All wrapped up in a Netbeans gui.
Attached is an email I wrote to the author with my personal assessment of
TestMaker's chances at Jakarta. I hope it doesn't discourage people from
doing their own analysis, but apparently if these things aren't posted
publicly, Jakarta gains a reputation of ignoring people's approaches.
--Jeff
<plug>
co-author of a similar Ant-based testing framework, http://aft.sf.net
</plug>
[1] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jmeter-dev&m=103064442221903&w=2
[2] http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-general&m=103064493222452&w=2
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 09:09:49AM -0700, Frank Cohen wrote:
> >> Hi Jeff: Thanks for your interest. TestMaker uses a lot of open-source
> >> libraries: NetBeans, Jython, Xerces, JDOM, Apache SOAP, etc. The download
> >> package on the Web site provides these all integrated and ready to use. The
> >> components we wrote from scratch are the Test Object Oriented Library (TOOL)
> >> and the NetBeans module and localization/branding file.
> >>
> >> I'm laid up in bed with a nasty head cold - have been for the past 4 days.
> >> Ugh. I'll send you a document that shows how to build TestMaker from all the
> >> parts shortly.
> >
> > That's okay, I downloaded the whole shebang yesterday, and don't reeeally
> > need to build all from scratch ;)
>
> Great. How did the install go? Are you running Unix, Windows, ? Did you read
> the docs?
It all went nicely after I fixed the file formats.
> > Anyway, just random thoughts :) I fully agree that the .NET vs Java war
> > is hotting up and that OSS's achilles heel is the lack of coordination
> > and integration.
>
> Is there a process to getting TestMaker considered as a subproject? I read
> the Jakarta Web pages - which do a very good job a discouraging - but it
> doesn't really say how a subproject is started. :-)
You did it right. There's a Project Management Committee (PMC) of seven
people who decide if a project gets in or not, and they decide based on
interest expressed on general@jakarta. There, 99.9% of people don't know
or use your project, so they form opinions mainly on criteria like these:
1) Is it suitable as per http://jakarta.apache.org/site/newproject.html
2) Is it a winner, ie is it leading the pack in it's market niche.
3) Does it's goals overlap with any existing, more widely know projects.
4) Does it integrate well with existing Jakarta projects.
I think TestMaker meets 1), and given the sad, fragmented state of open
source functional testing generally, doesn't fail 2) either.
TestMaker's functionality does seem to overlap with JMeter somewhat,
which is what Andrew Oliver said. Lately, people have been very
unforgiving of projects that may fulfil the goals of related, more
widely-known projects (in this case, JMeter). People do realise that
fragmentation is hurting Java, so they'd rather callously say "go away
and merge with X" than accept any project that isn't clearly unique or
market-leading.
Also, TestMaker seems more an integration of existing technologies
(jython, netbeans) than a more traditional straight-Java project. The
TestMaker-specific code (TOOL) has already been implemented at Jakarta,
in the form of the HTTPClient project:
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/httpclient/
At least, that is the impression a casual user gets from the TOOL
description "Tool is the object library that handles communication with
HTTP, HTTPS, SOAP, .NET, JDBC and other protocols."
There's absolutely nothing wrong with projects that meet a need by
integrating existing projects (assuming netbeans + jython + http lib ==
TestMaker), but they don't really "fit" well in Jakarta. There's just so
many permutations. If someone integrated Eclipse + jython + httplib,
should that also live at Jakarta?
Anyway, that's my brutally honest opinion :)
Perhaps we should form a "Open Source Functional Testing Tools
Consortium" to promote awareness of what's out there, and more
collaboration amongst the various projects (Latka, Anteater, TestMaker,
JMeter, WebTest.. any others?).
--Jeff
> > --Jeff
> >
> > [1] http://aft.sourceforge.net
> > [2] http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/latka)
> > [3] http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/jelly
> >
> >> -Frank
> >>
> >> --
> >> Frank Cohen, CEO, PushToTest, www.pushtotest.com, phone: 408 374 7426
> >> Come to PushToTest for free open-source Active Security solutions that test,
> >> monitor and automate Web Service systems for functionality, scalability and
> >> performance.
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: Jeff Turner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 14:42:35 +1000
> >>> To: Frank Cohen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> Subject: Re: TestMaker as subproject
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> This looks very interesting. I'm trying to download the source to have a
> >>> play. I've downloaded CVS modules 'tool' and 'testmaker', but that hardly
> >>> looks like enough to generate a 17mb zip file. Are there other modules
> >>> not mentioned in the FAQ?
> >>>
> >>> --Jeff
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Aug 29, 2002 at 10:58:22AM -0700, Frank Cohen wrote:
> >>>> Who should I contact to submit the TestMaker (formerly Load) project for
> >>>> consideration as a Jakarta subproject?
> >>>>
> >>>> I've been maintaining the TestMaker (formerly Load) framework for the past
> >>>> 5
> >>>> years. TestMaker is a framework for building intelligent test agents that
> >>>> check Web systems based on HTTP, HTTPS, SOAP, and XML-RPC for scalability,
> >>>> performance and functionality. TestMaker lives on the
> >>>> http://www.PushToTest.com/ptt site and has an modest community of users.
> >>>>
> >>>> TestMaker would make a nice addition to the JUnit and JMeter subprojects.
> >>>> JUnit and JMeter focus on providing Java developers with frameworks for
> >>>> unit
> >>>> and system tests. TestMaker focuses on QA engineers and IT managers that
> >>>> may
> >>>> know how to code Java objects but are more comfortable in a GUI environment
> >>>> with a script language.
> >>>>
> >>>> TestMaker is distributed under an Apache-style license. The PushToTest site
> >>>> normally gets 60-100 people a day visiting, with about half downloading
> >>>> TestMaker. 6500 people have downloaded the software. 1840 are on the
> >>>> mailing
> >>>> list to receive announcements. 20 people are on the developer email list,
> >>>> with myself and 2 others applying patches and new features on a monthly
> >>>> basis. The traffic is mostly from Google searches for "free test automation
> >>>> software", the articles I have written for IBM developerWorks, and the
> >>>> Testing Web Services book I am writing
> >>>> (http://www.pushtotest.com/ptt/thebook.html.)
> >>>>
> >>>> My sense of the oncoming .NET vs J2EE fight motivates me to seek Apache's
> >>>> adoption of TestMaker. .NET is fabulous for developers because it is
> >>>> complete. The completeness of .NET is an advantage over the disparity and
> >>>> disjointed set of tools in the J2EE camp. In my mind, Apache is best
> >>>> positioned to offer a competing platform of tools and server software to
> >>>> developers. Having TestMaker in Jakarta would be the equivalent of adding
> >>>> Microsoft ACT or Mercury Interactive Loadrunner to the Apache platform.
> >>>>
> >>>> Please let me know your thoughts on this proposal. Thank you, in advance.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Frank Cohen
> >>>> http://www.PushToTest.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Frank Cohen, CEO, PushToTest, www.pushtotest.com, phone: 408 374 7426
> >>>> Come to PushToTest for free open-source Active Security solutions that
> >>>> test,
> >>>> monitor and automate Web Service systems for functionality, scalability and
> >>>> performance.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Hell is a state of mind. And every state of mind, left to itself,
> >>> every shutting up of the creature within the dungeon of it's own
> >>> mind -- is, in the end, Hell.
> >>> C.S. Lewis, _The Great Divorce_
> >>
> >
> > --
> > Hell is a state of mind. And every state of mind, left to itself,
> > every shutting up of the creature within the dungeon of it's own
> > mind -- is, in the end, Hell.
> > C.S. Lewis, _The Great Divorce_
>
--
Hell is a state of mind. And every state of mind, left to itself,
every shutting up of the creature within the dungeon of it's own
mind -- is, in the end, Hell.
C.S. Lewis, _The Great Divorce_
--- End Message ---
--
To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
