On Sun, 12 Mar 2006, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
I'm glad Henri posted that "reorganization" things were being discussed. I would have preferred that he posted a more detailed message as I think others would likely be opposed to such forms of social engineering. Things evolve the way the evolve for a reason. That POI has relatively little to do with
I didn't post more because I didn't want to falsely represent Martin, Stephen and many others' viewpoints. Best to read the originals I figure.
If projects share obvious common technical ties then it makes sense, otherwise lets let darwin decide rather than radical social engineering.
This is a point many have brought up (Martin, Stephen, yourself). Let evolution take care of it. It's a cool saying to use.
Unfortunately it's a terrible metaphor. Evolution happens in spontaneous bursts, and via mutations that allow some to be better suited to environmental change. Not because the whole decide to change their ways. This is evolution happening right now. What you mean to say is "let's not change".
[I fully accept I don't get evolution, it's a moving target of a subject - but I'm closer than the previous metaphor]
The PMC should ASK the individual projects if they would like to share a common list and set of committers rather than a top down decision proposed on a list that most committers don't subscribe to (which might indicate...duh...that they don't want to be on a list mostly not about their project). This proposal and any that resemble it are non-starters for me.
What it indicates is that they are not a part of the Jakarta community. The viewpoint that "I am an ECS committer, not a Jakarta committer" has only one answer to my view - ecs.apache.org.
A lot of this sounds like Commons trying to remake Jakarta in its image. As
Nope, much of this is me trying to turn Jakarta into a normal Apache project - rather than the corpse of something that was determined to be unwanted by the ASF as a whole many years ago. Jakarta was considered in need of change back then and thus the TLPs started happening, and we're less healthy now than we were then.
Given that Commons defines a much healthier umbrella concept than Jakarta does, I'm seeking to bring those ideas up into Jakarta while flattening the whole so we're less of a 3 to 4 tier umbrella.
an alternative why can't commons be top level? The namespace is now free (http://commons.apache.org/).
It's definitely another option - and one I've mentioned. The namespace is pretty much free - a few views that we shouldn't be re-using an old name but I'm confident we'd be able to use the name. One point likely to cause trouble is over whether commons.apache.org would be Java focused or not.
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