Ian wrote:
>Iain,
>
>I have to disagree on this. One of the properties of vote-info is
that a
>single person is only to be signed up once to this list. It is
this list
>that enables us to have an accurate count of official 'membership'.
>
>A 'dev' list on the other hand, many people will want and need to
be signed
>up to more than once (like with both work and home email addresses)
and this
>wreaks havoc with vote counting.
Hmm. I was trying to model it after the apache org which only has
developers voting so everyone on dev (the developers) don't need an
extra
vote. I can see letting everyone (users and general interest) vote
with
full vote privileges can be a big problem but it is how we're
currently
setup. As far vote counting, jos is setup to do voting by directly
emailing the vote admin. The vote-info is only for vote
announcements, and
vote discussion. I'm a bit unclear why we can't do vote
announcements on
announce, and vote discussion on general (if not dev).
Yes, the votes take place by directly emailing the vote admin. However, the
total number or 'registered' voters is taken from the roll of the vote-info
list. This number of registered voters is the basis for finding out if a
vote passed. This is why it is important that a single person be on the
vote-info not more than once.
>Also, a change to the Policy Book for this would require an
ordinary vote.
>I don't think it is worth it.
I think its worth it. I want to clean up the mailing list org and
am
willing to go through the pain. IMHO, if voting is so difficult
that doing
things correctly is sacrificed simply to avoid voting, then voting
should
be made simpler/easier so we vote more often. I personally think
that
ordinary voting is much too difficult and should be switched over to
normal
lazy voting ala apache's (+1, 0, -1 ping the list, get consensus).
I don't think it is worth going through the pain because:
1) I don't believe such a reorganization of the voting procedure is in our
best interest. In your scenario, in order for us to count votes correctly
(according to the constitution), I could only be subscribed to the 'dev'
list once. That is very inconvenient for me and I'm sure for many others.
The voting designed in the Constitution is for making votes binding and
official. The 'dev' list doesn't accomplish that.
2) If all you want to do is find a consensus of active developers, without
making a vote binding or official, then you can use the +1 type vote on the
'dev' list for that without going through an official Constitutional vote.
The Constitution doesn't prevent that.
Regards,
Avery J. Regier
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Iain Shigeoka [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 6:01 PM
> To: Regier Avery J; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [JOS] Mailing list reorganization
>
> At 01:53 PM 9/26/00 -0500, Regier Avery J wrote:
> >Iain,
> >
> >I have to disagree on this. One of the properties of vote-info is that a
> >single person is only to be signed up once to this list. It is this list
> >that enables us to have an accurate count of official 'membership'.
> >
> >A 'dev' list on the other hand, many people will want and need to be
> signed
> >up to more than once (like with both work and home email addresses) and
> this
> >wreaks havoc with vote counting.
>
> Hmm. I was trying to model it after the apache org which only has
> developers voting so everyone on dev (the developers) don't need an extra
> vote. I can see letting everyone (users and general interest) vote with
> full vote privileges can be a big problem but it is how we're currently
> setup. As far vote counting, jos is setup to do voting by directly
> emailing the vote admin. The vote-info is only for vote announcements,
> and
> vote discussion. I'm a bit unclear why we can't do vote announcements on
> announce, and vote discussion on general (if not dev).
>
> >Also, a change to the Policy Book for this would require an ordinary
> vote.
> >I don't think it is worth it.
>
> I think its worth it. I want to clean up the mailing list org and am
> willing to go through the pain. IMHO, if voting is so difficult that
> doing
> things correctly is sacrificed simply to avoid voting, then voting should
> be made simpler/easier so we vote more often. I personally think that
> ordinary voting is much too difficult and should be switched over to
> normal
> lazy voting ala apache's (+1, 0, -1 ping the list, get consensus).
>
> -iain
>
>
> >Avery J. Regier
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Iain Shigeoka [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 12:06 PM
> > > To: Robert Fitzsimons; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: [JOS] Mailing list reorganization
> > >
> > > At 06:23 AM 9/24/00 +0000, Robert Fitzsimons wrote:
> > >
> > > >So the proposal is too reduce the number so that the discussions can
> be
> > > >more easily followed.
> > > >
> > > >So these would be the mailing lists:
> > > >announce - Used to announce project status, releases, etc.
> > > > Same as current mailing list.
> > > >vote-info - Used to organize votes as required by Policy Book.
> > > > Same as current mailing list.
> > > >developer - Used to discuss all issuse related to developement.
> > > > A combination of all the previous mailing lists.
> > > >
> > > >I've left out the admin mailing list. Do we need it? Can we not
> just
> > > >use the developer mailing list?
> > >
> > > I think we need a "general" or "user" list for anything that isn't
> > > development related. Typically, because the developers are the
> voters,
> > > most projects seem to break it up as:
> > >
> > > announce
> > > dev
> > > general/user
> > >
> > > with votes occuring on the dev list. I'd prefer to vote on a change
> to
> > > the
> > > policy book to get voting onto the dev list and break it up this way
> (3
> > > lists really is enough).
> > >
> > > -iain
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > General maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > http://jos.org/mailman/listinfo/general
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >General maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >http://jos.org/mailman/listinfo/general
>
_______________________________________________
General maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://jos.org/mailman/listinfo/general
