I do not apologize for the text being presentation oriented. The current presentation looks pretty close to exactly what I want to achieve, and that presentation is what (I would guess) the overwhelming majority of users would see.
If it is impossible to reconstruct the contents from the current text I would be moved to do something about it. If it is merely difficult then working harder and smarter at the reconstruction would be the answer. I am willing to put in some work to make the text more standard. Please make specific and individual proposals. For example: Currently in a vocabulary entry (e.g. d011.htm) it says <font size=+1>Floor</font> . Instead, do this: ... And add this ... to the css file ----- Original Message ----- From: Oleg Kobchenko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Friday, July 18, 2008 9:27 Subject: Re: [Jgeneral] CSS layout for J Dictionary To: General forum <[email protected]> > > From: Roger Hui <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > The dictionary currently uses HTML. It works. > > Moreover, since HTML is a formal language the > > text can in principle be translated automatically > > into something else. Please tell me in a few simple > > sentences why it should be changed to some > > other format. > > What I gathered, is it's the argument of content vs > presentation. If you look at dictionary pages' source, > they are clearly layout (presentation) oriented, eg use > of tables, br, spacers, etc. Ric suggests using content-based > approach with divs, specialized HTML tags and content- > identifying > IDs or classes, and then use CSS to achieve desired layout effects. > > > In your jwiki page > > http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/RicSherlock/J_Dictionary/CSS_Format > > you complained about the exercise numbering, > > viz. "2.4" is too hard. Are you serious about > > this complaint? > > It was not a complaint, it was sharing difficulty of > reproducing such numbering with CSS automatically. > > This is addressed in CCS2 as "Nested counters" > http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/generate.html#scope > > Nevertheless, it is possible to reconstruct the > semantic intent of structured text based on layout > tags, their order is known. A similar problem was > addressed in the xml/loose addon as seen in test/dic2.ijs. > But such reconstruction is more difficult than having > direct indications of content sections. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Sherlock, Ric" > > Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008 17:19 > > Subject: [Jgeneral] CSS layout for J Dictionary > > To: "[email protected]" > > > > > > > > My suggestions do not represent a desire to change or edit > the > > > content of the Dictionary in any way, but merely a desire to > > > help the authors and copyright holders improve the > experience of > > > J users. My suggestions assume that the current definitive > > > source of the Dictionary is HTML as published on the website > - > > > if that is not the case, then most of the rest of this post > is > > > probably irrelevant! > > > > > > > > > It seems to me that it would be easier for Jsoftware, to > > > maintain the Dictionary and automate its publication in > various > > > formats from a single definitive source, if the document was > > > stored in a way that better separated structure and content > from > > > formatting. > > > In the past separating structure and content from formatting > was > > > always a problem with HTML because web browsers had less- > than- > > > consistent handling of standards like CSS. As a result HTML > > > tables were often used to provide a consistent experience > across > > > most browsers as they are currently in the Dictionary. Most > > > modern browsers now support enough of these standards that > it > > > would be feasible to reformat the Dictionary while still > > > maintaining a consistent web browser experience. I imagine > that > > > one of the reasons that this hasn't happened yet, is simply > that > > > the work to achieve this hasn't been a priority relative to > > > other more substantive changes to J (and of course > activities > > > that actually generate revenue!). Hopefully some of the > > > following will help ease the pain of moving to a new format. > If > > > not, I'll just put it down to experience! > > > > > > Anyway, I recently had a bit of time on my hands and had a > bit > > > of a tinker to see if I could re-create a page layout > similar to > > > that of the current J Dictionary using XHTML and CSS, rather > > > than tables. > > > > > > If you are interested in having a look please check out the > wiki page: > > > > http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/RicSherlock/J_Dictionary/CSS_Format/> > > > > I'm no HTML/CSS guru, so I'm sure that there are other, > perhaps > > > better, ways of doing this but I thought this might at least > be > > > a good starting point and get things kicked off. > > > > > > Assuming that an acceptable layout/format was found, can > anyone > > > recommend a way of automating the conversion more than just > > > manually reformatting each page? > > > > > > I remember a forum post a while back suggesting that the > > > xml/loose addon may be useful for converting old html to > xml, > > > could it be used in this case? Or perhaps HTML Tidy? > > > > > > I'm sure there will be a need for some manual tinkering to > get > > > things right, but hopefully at least some (preferably most!) > of > > > the process could be automated? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
