Eli Schwartz posted on Sun, 24 Aug 2025 15:32:07 -0400 as excerpted:

> I am opposed to implementing anything which constitutes "security
> theater as a matter of policy". Security theater is a *net negative*. It
> makes people think that security guarantees exist which don't in fact
> exist, and they let down their guard.

So yeah, it's theater, and I agree, certainly net-negative (and FWIW I'd 
have worded it as flat dangerous, at least as-is!) in general, in part 
because it seems to prove something it doesn't.

Jayf does have a point, however.  Theater tho it may be, what happens if 
some how, some way, that theater catches something upstream and gentoo 
doesn't because it didn't implement it?

So I asked myself if there was a way to counteract that negative/dangerous 
bit while still doing the hoop-jump theater to counteract jayf's what-if 
as well?

I can't seem to grep it any longer, but some years ago I recall coming 
across a USE flag for some package: gaping-security-hole (or some such, 
that's from memory).  Naturally on seeing that flag I had to equery uses 
the package to see just what sort of description that USE flag had, and it 
was pretty much what the name suggested, but (reading a bit more into 
things than was actually explicit) apparently a presumably large site 
installation had some sort of local use-case where the security concerns 
didn't apply, so given that it had an upstream-available config option, 
the Gentoo maintainer had obliged them with a USE flag but labeled it 
exactly what he considered it to be in the process.

That was a memorable USE flag!

Borrowing that blatant call-out idea, what if we called it 
PYPI_VERIFICATION_THEATER or PYPI_HOOP_JUMPING_THEATER instead of 
PYPI_VERIFY_REPO, with accordingly matched low-level function names?  Or 
even PYPI_FAKE_VERIFICATION or PYPI_VERIFICATION_FAKEOUT and etc, to more 
directly call it what it is...

>From here that looks to get the message across both for Gentoo devs and 
upstream/downstream if anyone cares to look, while never-the-less going 
through the motions upstream's proposing in case jayf somehow some way 
looks prescient in a couple years.  (No offense intended jayf, tho surely 
you'd rather you didn't, too! =:^)

Of course if upstream ever does the second step and gets the halt-on-
change sam's quote pointed to working we'd arguably want to tone down our 
names a bit, but at least we'd have worked out any bugs in our initial 
implementation during the theater (aka dry-run test) period, and that bit 
should continue to work once there's at least /some/ value to it.

Not that I'll be broken-hearted if that proposal isn't implemented, but 
the option is there...

-- 
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman


Reply via email to