Hey Guys,
Only a few people turned up, but this is what came out of the meeting
anyway.
Userreps:
Was decided that we are not going to hold another election. Email alias
has been deleted, forums and /proj need to be cleaned up still (Mark),
as well as a summary written about the project (Mark and Jorge)
New members:
Those present said that they had no objections to fmmcor and dmwaters
joining the team.
Leadership:
As stipulated in the metastructure, elections need to be held every
year for a project leader, no-one volunteered.
Leadership and userrel motivation will be dealt with at the next
meeting, to be held on December 13 at 2100 UTC
Cheers,
Mark
[07:11:28] <mark_alec> first item for the agenday, userreps
[07:11:48] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: Ax or no ax?
[07:11:55] <mark_alec> i think it's safe to say that given the current state of userrel, we can't hold another election
[07:12:04] <jmbsvicetto> Agreed
[07:12:16] <mark_alec> considering we didn't have the motivation last time round to keep it active, no chance in hell we can this time
[07:12:57] <mark_alec> it is also time to retire last year's userreps
[07:12:59] <jmbsvicetto> not with the current team, agreed
[07:13:13] <mark_alec> i can fix that up later today on the forums and elsewhere
[07:13:41] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: Isn't there a [EMAIL PROTECTED] alias?
[07:13:47] <mark_alec> there is
[07:14:16] <jmbsvicetto> Will you or do you want me to ask infra to nuke it?
[07:14:23] <mark_alec> you can
[07:14:36] <jmbsvicetto> Let me ping them while we talk
[07:14:52] <mark_alec> i'll do it on the forums, and struggle to fix the project page as well
[07:15:42] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: If you want help with guidexml, I'll try to look at it as well
[07:16:14] <mark_alec> i won't say the userreps project was a complete failure, some people were definitely helped in the early stages
[07:16:33] <mark_alec> and others like djay-il are still involved with gentoo (via managing planet larry)
[07:17:11] <jmbsvicetto> I think the problem is that userrel failed to do it's job as can be seen by the zombie state for the last 6, if not almost 12, months
[07:17:29] <mark_alec> correct, as well as not requiring the current userreps be active
[07:17:32] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: alias deleted
[07:17:51] <mark_alec> plenty of them disappeared
[07:18:01] <mark_alec> some were never around to begin with
[07:18:05] <jmbsvicetto> true, but that had to be expected
[07:18:37] * zlin is here too for some weird reason :p
[07:18:45] <jmbsvicetto> Also, a close followup would be needed to make sure people do the job or to at least motivate them not to get away
[07:18:52] <jmbsvicetto> zlin: :)
[07:19:48] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: list of people on the alias - http://rafb.net/p/xnff8W23.html
[07:20:27] <mark_alec> next item?
[07:21:24] --> likewhoa has joined this channel ([EMAIL PROTECTED]/userrep/likewhoa).
[07:21:28] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: Do we want to write a one or two paragraph summary of the project?
[07:21:49] <mark_alec> hey likewhoa
[07:22:05] <likewhoa> hey
[07:22:06] <mark_alec> likewhoa: in case you hadn't predicted it, we are finishing up the userreps project today
[07:22:17] <mark_alec> lack of motivation, year is up etc.
[07:22:26] <jmbsvicetto> Hi likewhoa
[07:22:31] <likewhoa> hey jmbsvicetto
[07:23:00] <likewhoa> yea userreps was a great idea but not enough motivation involved :(
[07:23:10] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: I think we 2 can do a summary of the project as, with the possible exception of christel, I'm sure we were the ones that dealt more with userreps
[07:23:28] <jmbsvicetto> likewhoa: Am I right?
[07:23:37] <likewhoa> agreed
[07:25:08] <likewhoa> so what's the plan for the future?
[07:25:50] <jmbsvicetto> likewhoa: I think that might be one of the next points
[07:26:38] --> hparker has joined this channel ([EMAIL PROTECTED]/developer/hparker).
[07:26:53] <hparker> A bit late :P
[07:27:09] <likewhoa> better late than never
[07:27:46] <hparker> customer stopped by and wouldn't leave
[07:28:00] <jmbsvicetto> The userreps project was ended as it has long overdue its term and userrel is unable to support a new team or to hold an election. Even though there was a lack of motivation on many of the elected userreps, userrel failed to support and to motivate the team.
[07:28:07] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: something like the above?
[07:28:28] <mark_alec> jmbsvicetto: yeah, we can work on that later today
[07:28:48] <jmbsvicetto> ok
[07:28:52] <jmbsvicetto> Hi Homer
[07:28:56] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: next point?
[07:30:00] <likewhoa> and i like the only userrep in here?
[07:30:05] * likewhoa feels lonely
[07:30:52] <jmbsvicetto> likewhoa: Your room has been cold for some time now :\
[07:30:58] <mark_alec> Evaluate userrel project as we as a team didn't do anything
[07:30:58] <mark_alec> within 6 months
[07:31:09] <mark_alec> can't really do since the team is missing
[07:31:23] <mark_alec> so let's jump to another point: team membership
[07:31:26] <likewhoa> jmbsvicetto: yea, it's so sad just not enough motivation from others :(
[07:31:47] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: Actually, I think we shouldn't go over that point
[07:32:38] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: we 3 can't disband the team or fire people, but we can surely voice our views and call for action
[07:33:50] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: Given the way the team has been conducting for well over 6 months, I think it's time to demand a decision - let's call for another meeting in 15 days or so and let it clear that if people don't show up, we either leave the team (if we think it should die) or that we take over it
[07:34:14] <mark_alec> jmbsvicetto: we can clean up the membership to remove the ex-devs
[07:34:15] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec / hparker: What do you think?
[07:34:40] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: true, but that isn't the single problem. When did you last see our leads around in a meeting?
[07:34:49] <mark_alec> jmbsvicetto: never
[07:35:05] <likewhoa> i feel lack of collaboration.
[07:35:12] <hparker> Another call for meeting might be a way to weed people out
[07:35:15] <jmbsvicetto> likewhoa: I would say lack of *team* ;)
[07:35:20] <likewhoa> i agree with jmbsvicetto , even though i'm not a userrel.
[07:35:34] <likewhoa> jmbsvicetto: s/collaboration/team collaboration/
[07:36:58] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec / hparker: What do you propose?
[07:37:28] <hparker> Though I know that i also miss a lot of meetings, so...
[07:38:09] <mark_alec> jmbsvicetto: another meeting is fine
[07:38:18] <hparker> And had I not be waiting on someone atm would of missed this one in favor of being out hustling a buck
[07:40:02] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec / hparker: Do you think userrel should die or that it needs to be *fixed*?
[07:40:23] <mark_alec> fixed, to become more like devrel
[07:40:26] <jmbsvicetto> I would like to see it *fixed* because I think in its current form it's the same as dead
[07:40:48] <hparker> mark_alec: Oh, great.. i'd be part of 2 cabals that do nothing then :-o
[07:40:56] <jmbsvicetto> hparker: lol
[07:41:33] <hparker> Fixing would be nice... Not sure about the being like devrel part though
[07:42:01] <jmbsvicetto> Do you have any idea / suggestions on what we should be doing to fix userrel?
[07:42:03] <hparker> I guess I need clarification as to how like devrel it should be
[07:43:24] <mark_alec> passive vs. active
[07:43:35] <mark_alec> being active requires motivation, we don't have it
[07:43:47] <hparker> You see devrel as active?
[07:43:49] <mark_alec> so if we create a team that responds when people ask it to, that might work
[07:43:53] <mark_alec> hparker: no, passive
[07:44:30] <hparker> Well, with all of the red tape involved that's all it can be... Proctors were supposed to be active and you see where that is
[07:44:49] <jmbsvicetto> hparker: mark_alec and I were both proctors ;)
[07:45:14] <hparker> So, being active may not be a good thing
[07:45:33] <jmbsvicetto> hparker: I think Mark was saying we should be passive
[07:45:52] <hparker> it's got that covered :P
[07:46:09] <jmbsvicetto> :)
[07:46:38] <jmbsvicetto> Actually, I would like to see userrel being active on a few things like adopt-a-dev and planet/universe/...
[07:46:51] <hparker> Are there issues that have been presented to userrel that weren't resolved?
[07:47:08] <jmbsvicetto> hparker: I think most people tend to see userrel as dead
[07:47:28] <jmbsvicetto> hparker: Even the user complaints about bugzilla aren't showing up anymore
[07:47:41] <hparker> Active in those in what ways?
[07:48:12] <jmbsvicetto> I feel userrel was never really involved on those. Instead the people keeping those were part of userrel
[07:48:27] <jmbsvicetto> I would like to see userrel behind those projects - backing them up
[07:48:43] <hparker> ah
[07:49:12] <hparker> So, how should we backup the blogs?
[07:50:03] <jmbsvicetto> Well, for starters, from what I read in infra, there were a few issues with the blogs systems - are they even on gentoo hardware?
[07:51:00] <hparker> I think planet/universe are and there may be some dev blogs there... I don't read blogs so not real sure
[07:51:10] <hparker> I don't do forums either
[07:51:21] <jmbsvicetto> hparker: I also don't follow blogs, but some users and devs do.
[07:51:48] <jmbsvicetto> hparker: Together with forums, mls and irc channels, they create that sense of "community" users keep talking about Gentoo
[07:51:49] <mark_alec> jmbsvicetto: best ask beandog
[07:52:00] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: ok
[07:52:26] <jmbsvicetto> so, if we would like to fix "userrel", do you have any suggestions on how to do it?
[07:52:41] <jmbsvicetto> Should we send some mails to the userrel ml about that and try to get others involved?
[07:53:22] <jmbsvicetto> Or does any of you think that we must start with looking at the team and who is part of it?
[07:53:41] <hparker> As I remember it, which we all know i'm old and forgetful, userrel was setup to address problem users and user related problems.. So i'm unsure of what else is covered
[07:54:11] <jmbsvicetto> hparker: When I joined the team, it no longer had that role - imho, at least
[07:54:30] <jmbsvicetto> hparker: But that is a role I think it should get back
[07:54:55] <hparker> I didn't get the memo... Or if I did, i forget
[07:56:04] <jmbsvicetto> hparker: I don't think anyone decided to throw that role away, the team just stoppped assuming it
[07:56:17] <hparker> ahh
[08:01:40] <jmbsvicetto> jokey should be getting here at any moment now
[08:01:42] --> jokey has joined this channel ([EMAIL PROTECTED]/developer/jokey).
[08:01:57] <jmbsvicetto> jokey: We've killed userreps and are talking about userrel
[08:02:07] <jokey> some backlog?
[08:03:45] <jmbsvicetto> hparker / mark_alec: Anything else about userrel?
[08:04:18] <mark_alec> don't think so
[08:04:48] <jokey> a job for userrel people
[08:05:00] <jokey> especially the ones who are active on forums
[08:05:08] * hparker thwaps jokey
[08:05:14] <hparker> we wanna slack!
[08:05:24] <jmbsvicetto> jokey: yes?
[08:05:28] <jokey> if you spot something interesting there, please send something to gwn people
[08:05:44] <jmbsvicetto> jokey: We already were supposed to do that ;)
[08:05:51] <jokey> anything from just a link with one line to a xmlified article accepted
[08:05:57] <hparker> jmbsvicetto: I don't have anything, but getting back to the origins would probably be a good start.. get that working properly and then think about other things
[08:06:23] <jmbsvicetto> hparker: ok
[08:07:36] <jokey> what current tasks besides the comments occasionally on bugzie do we have atm / which do we want? ;)
[08:07:36] <mark_alec> anything else on the agenda?
[08:08:33] <jokey> I mean you have planet/forums on the backlog but let's nail that down and stick it on the website and topic
[08:09:56] <mark_alec> jokey: huh?
[08:10:24] <jokey> a definition of what we want to do would be nice ;)
[08:10:24] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: team elections and fmccor and dmwaters offer to join the team
[08:11:02] <jokey> deedra fine again? heard she had some issues lately...
[08:11:19] <jmbsvicetto> jokey: I haven't heard anything
[08:11:31] <mark_alec> i'm fine with people joining
[08:11:47] <jmbsvicetto> me too
[08:12:15] <jokey> sure thing
[08:12:32] <mark_alec> lead elections?
[08:12:56] <mark_alec> that is needed every year according to the metastructure documentation
[08:13:36] <jokey> k'
[08:13:43] <jokey> who wants the official cepter? ;)
[08:14:31] * mark_alec runs
[08:14:40] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: Thanks for offering :P
[08:14:48] * jmbsvicetto runs *away*
[08:14:55] <mark_alec> i ran away, not for leadership
[08:15:02] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: ;)
[08:16:40] <jmbsvicetto> So, it seems no one wants the cepter
[08:16:52] <jokey> meh
[08:16:55] <jokey> don't make me take it
[08:17:06] <jokey> I'll run after you and kick your asses with it ;)
[08:17:07] * jmbsvicetto hands it over to jokey
[08:17:14] <mark_alec> you are already council, another leadership position can't hurt
[08:17:49] <jokey> council, overlays, sunrise, ... hard job :x
[08:18:12] <jmbsvicetto> jokey: overlays ... I'll talk to you later about that
[08:18:29] <jmbsvicetto> Any proposal for next meeting?
[08:18:43] <mark_alec> getting more people to attent
[08:18:45] <mark_alec> *attend
[08:18:50] <jmbsvicetto> :)
[08:19:10] <jokey> right
[08:19:16] <jokey> where's tsunam?
[08:19:17] <jmbsvicetto> I would suggest we set a date now, as previous experience shows it's next to impossible to set a meeting for this team :\
[08:19:25] <mark_alec> but i want to sleep again now, later guys
[08:19:39] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: Do you have any limitation time-wise?
[08:19:57] <mark_alec> jmbsvicetto: yes, i am on holidays from the 19th
[08:19:58] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: So we don't choose a date / time you can't be around
[08:20:20] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec: any time requirements / requests ?
[08:20:25] <mark_alec> and i am looking to get a job, no clue when that would be though
[08:20:39] <mark_alec> jmbsvicetto: anytime at the moment, if it doesn't suit me i will say
[08:20:45] <jmbsvicetto> ok
[08:20:55] <jmbsvicetto> hparker / jokey: What about you?
[08:21:05] * mark_alec goes for real this time
[08:21:18] <hparker> It varies so much for me all i can say is i'll try whenever it's set
[08:21:22] <jmbsvicetto> later mark_alec
[08:21:27] <jokey> open to anything "CET normal"
[08:21:41] <jmbsvicetto> 15 days from now, same hour?
[08:21:43] <jokey> cet -> utc +1
[08:21:45] <jokey> k'
[08:21:58] <jmbsvicetto> mark_alec is likely to prefer one hour later
[08:22:27] <jmbsvicetto> so, 20H00 UTC ?
[08:22:48] <jokey> if he wants an hour later, it's 2100UTC
[08:23:16] <jmbsvicetto> jokey: 20H00 UTC it's 7H00 AM for him
[08:23:39] <jmbsvicetto> jokey: If you don't mind 21H00 UTC, I have no problem with that
[08:23:54] <jokey> RESOLVED:WORKSFORME
[08:23:59] <jmbsvicetto> :)
[08:24:23] *** jmbsvicetto sets the channel topic to "Meeting 13 December - 21H00 UTC || agenda - http://rafb.net/p/gichip24.html";.
[08:24:53] <jmbsvicetto> Anything else or can we adjourn the meeting?
[08:25:53] <jokey> all said
[08:26:14] <jmbsvicetto> ok, later then
