Well, look, not to press, but since this seems to get under your skin, I might as well.
AT&T most certainly had a legal department. None of the research in which you were engaged would’ve gotten off the ground without passing through legal. The legal department, no doubt, would’ve been aware of all relevant laws, as well as any relevant political controversies. In telephone research, one can’t imagine much that would be particularly controversial, but there probably were a few things that raised fundamental questions – maybe something about the rights of one researcher to import or export findings from another lab, say. Those kinds of questions are the kinds of questions that ethicists who work in responsible research conduct raise, though they do so less with an eye toward to law and more with an eye toward what is right. I think, in other words, that it’s probably also false that AT&T never grappled with challenging research ethics questions. If you never encountered an ethicist, that probably just speaks more to the cloistering of your particular job than to the reach of ethics into the laboratory. Beyond this, however, research into geoengineering is a far more complicated undertaking. Depending on the nature of the research proposed -- whether, say, through models or field experiments -- it may require further consideration of impacts on vulnerable populations, much in the same way that sociological research sometimes impacts populations, or even demographic or ethnographic research impacts populations. It may also affect sensitive ecosystems. These are the kinds of things, again, that ethicists are concerned to address, and we can either help with that task, so that research can get off the ground without trampling the rights of others, or hinder that task, so that dangerous research never sees the light of day. Sure, if you’re just fantasizing about spraying particles into the sky from the comfort of your armchair and you’re calling this “research,” then this isn’t particularly controversial. Go ahead. Have a great time researching. But if you’re actually doing something with that research – perhaps affecting people or wildlife – you’d better get your ethical ducks in a row… because as I said, there’s gonna be blowback. Peace, Ben Benjamin Hale Assistant Professor/Graduate Director (ENVS) Philosophy <http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy> and Environmental Studies <http://envs.colorado.edu/> University of Colorado, Boulder Tel: 303 735-3624; Fax: 303 735-1576 http://www.practicalreason.com <http://www.practicalreason.com/> http://cruelmistress.wordpress.com <http://cruelmistress.wordpress.com/> Ethics, Policy <http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/cepe> & Environment From: euggor...@comcast.net [mailto:euggor...@comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 1:02 PM To: Benjamin Hale Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.com; christopherpreston1...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [geo] Re: Ethics and geoengineering: reviewing the moral issues raised by solar radiation management and carbon dioxide removal - Preston - 2012 - Wiley Interdisciplinary Reviews: Climate Change - Wiley Online Library Great, terrific; then there is nothing more to discuss. Thank you. Good discussion Somehow I missed it all. I never met an ethicist in a 55 year career of transformative research and development, half of it at AT&T Bell Labs. It was all about providing the best and least expensive telephone and video service everywhere including at the bottom of the various oceans. The big requirement was that the telephone doesn't break when it falls off the desk or the lasers for the digital repeaters last for 25 years at 18,000 feet down. No ethicist could have taught how to do that. Fortunately my scuba gear stayed in the box and the system was retired without a single failure. In contrast the French and English systems had very early laser failures and AT&T came to the rescue. I doubt they used ethicists; at least they did not admit it. -.gene _____ From: "Benjamin Hale" <bh...@colorado.edu> To: euggor...@comcast.net Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.com, christopherpreston1...@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 11:07:00 AM Subject: RE: [geo] Re: Ethics and geoengineering: reviewing the moral issues raised by solar radiation management and carbon dioxide removal - Preston - 2012 - Wiley Interdisciplinary Reviews: Climate Change - Wiley Online Library The point below is that ethicists do in fact already play an important role _inside the lab_ and _in the development of scientific research_, not just after the fact or with regard to implementation. That’s what IRBs do, that’s what professional codes are in place for, and that’s what many practical ethicists write about. Benjamin Hale Assistant Professor/Graduate Director (ENVS) Philosophy <http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy> and Environmental Studies <http://envs.colorado.edu/> University of Colorado, Boulder Tel: 303 735-3624; Fax: 303 735-1576 http://www.practicalreason.com <http://www.practicalreason.com/> http://cruelmistress.wordpress.com <http://cruelmistress.wordpress.com/> Ethics, Policy <http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/cepe> & Environment From: euggor...@comcast.net [mailto:euggor...@comcast.net] Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2012 8:31 AM To: Benjamin Hale Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.com; christopherpreston1...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [geo] Re: Ethics and geoengineering: reviewing the moral issues raised by solar radiation management and carbon dioxide removal - Preston - 2012 - Wiley Interdisciplinary Reviews: Climate Change - Wiley Online Library Why do you persist in ignoring what I and others say? I have said clearly there is a role for ethicists and many others when it comes to implementation of a technique in the world outside the laboratory of geoengineering technology development but it is not needed in the laboratory during early R&D. Scientists exercise controls for safety etc. They do not need ethicists to tell them how to do experiments or what safety measures are needed in the laboratory. Cut it out and stop repeating the same claptrap. _____ From: "Benjamin Hale" <bh...@colorado.edu> To: euggor...@comcast.net, christopherpreston1...@gmail.com Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 6:52:28 PM Subject: RE: [geo] Re: Ethics and geoengineering: reviewing the moral issues raised by solar radiation management and carbon dioxide removal - Preston - 2012 - Wiley Interdisciplinary Reviews: Climate Change - Wiley Online Library Every major scientific organization has codes of ethics to which their practitioners and researchers must abide. Almost all major research institutions have Institutional Review Boards which are committed to ensuring that scientific research meets with basic ethical protocols. There are reams of articles on the ethics of research and on the perils of not attending to the multitudinous ethical concerns in play. Ethics is not in any respect limited to the implementation of technologies and it will not go away, no matter how much you may wish it to. Benjamin Hale Assistant Professor/Graduate Director (ENVS) Philosophy <http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy> and Environmental Studies <http://envs.colorado.edu/> University of Colorado, Boulder Tel: 303 735-3624; Fax: 303 735-1576 http://www.practicalreason.com <http://www.practicalreason.com/> http://cruelmistress.wordpress.com <http://cruelmistress.wordpress.com/> Ethics, Policy <http://www.tandf.co.uk/journals/cepe> & Environment From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of euggor...@comcast.net Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 4:10 PM To: christopherpreston1...@gmail.com Cc: geoengineering@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [geo] Re: Ethics and geoengineering: reviewing the moral issues raised by solar radiation management and carbon dioxide removal - Preston - 2012 - Wiley Interdisciplinary Reviews: Climate Change - Wiley Online Library Nobody says it is hostle. Ethics just has no role in influencing research and development of basic principles of geoengineering. As soon as you say 'course of action' and apply it to geoengineering you have lost the argument. What you are talking about is implementation and geoengineers will not decide that but will participate in discussion with others including ethicists. Give up the transparent argument. It doesn't become ethicists. _____ From: "Christopher Preston" <christopherpreston1...@gmail.com> To: geoengineering@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 7:11:20 AM Subject: [geo] Re: Ethics and geoengineering: reviewing the moral issues raised by solar radiation management and carbon dioxide removal - Preston - 2012 - Wiley Interdisciplinary Reviews: Climate Change - Wiley Online Library Yes....there are activist groups set on "preventing research" and trying to "stymie" progress in understanding geoengineering. Ethicists, however, do something much different....generating discussion about values, uncovering the complexities about participation and just distribution of goods, looking for both moral benefits and moral costs of a proposed course of action, seeking ways to broaden the conversation. There is a much richer discussion here that we can all participate in as research into geoengineering picks up pace......but it requires abandoning the assumption that ethics is always hostile to scientific research. Christopher On Sunday, November 11, 2012 12:34:01 AM UTC, andrewjlockley wrote: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/wcc.198/abstract Ethics and geoengineering: reviewing the moral issues raised by solar radiation management and carbon dioxide removal Christopher J. Preston Article first published online: 8 NOV 2012 DOI: 10.1002/wcc.198 Abstract After two decades of failure by the international community to respond adequately to the threat of global climate change, discussions of the possibility of geoengineering a cooler climate have recently proliferated. Alongside the considerable optimism that these technologies have generated, there has also been wide acknowledgement of significant ethical concerns. Ethicists, social scientists, and experts in governance have begun the work of addressing these concerns. The plethora of ethical issues raised by geoengineering creates challenges for those who wish to survey them. The issues are here separated out according to the temporal spaces in which they first arise. Some crop up when merely contemplating the prospect of geoengineering. Others appear as research gets underway. Another set of issues attend the actual implementation of the technologies. A further set occurs when planning for the cessation of climate engineering. Two cautions about this organizational schema are in order. First, even if the issues first arise in the temporal spaces identified, they do not stay completely contained within them. A good reason to object to the prospect of geoengineering, for example, will likely remain a good reason to object to its implementation. Second, the ethical concerns intensify or weaken depending on the technology under consideration. The wide range of geoengineering technologies currently being discussed makes it prudent that each technique should be evaluated individually for its ethical merit. WIREs Clim Change 2012. doi: 10.1002/wcc.198 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/geoengineering/-/wBkt8mSdkpcJ. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en.
