Greg, Stephen, list
1. Re Stephen’s idea: Sounds like an idea where the next step will
have to be by the US air force (or someone’s military). Starting with 200
passenger designs wouldn’t seem to go very far.
2. I have nothing against H2 for lighter than air craft - but Helium
should be considered as well. I believe we are still venting a lot.
3. To get back onto the CDR aspects of this list (and costs lower than
$100/tonne CO2) - there are companies talking co-products of biochar and jet
fuel. Not happening now (I gather) because oil is $40/barrel - not the
anticipated $100/bbl.
4. Is anyone talking about low cost CDR starting with either solar,
wind, hydro, geothermal or other RE electric? Seems to me it has to be biochar.
Ron
> On Apr 18, 2016, at 11:40 AM, Greg Rau <gh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Stephen, that's a wonderful segway for our negative emissions H2:
> http://www.pnas.org/content/110/25/10095.full
> <http://www.pnas.org/content/110/25/10095.full>
> http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.est.5b00875
> <http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.est.5b00875>
> Happy to provide all of the supergreen H2 you need (for a price).
>
> As for H2 aircraft and the landing problem, how about zeppelins? I know that
> Hindenberg incident over here last century didn't help this technology (the
> Led Zepplin album cover (not to mention what as inside) influenced an entire
> generation), but why not put H2 to use both for lift and for propulsion?
> Zepplins would also seem to satisfy Prof. Northcott's desire for more
> civilized travel (his Action Item 11 below).
>
> Then there is Plan C - rockets. Rockets can use H2 as fuel, and Mr. Musk has
> now demonstrated the soft vertical landing of such. Was that landing on a
> rolling barge in the open ocean the most amazing engineering feat ever, or is
> it just me? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8Ij4FwO0nI
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8Ij4FwO0nI>
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
>
> From: Stephen Salter <s.sal...@ed.ac.uk>
> To: geoengineering@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 2:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [geo] March temperature smashes 100-year global record
>
> Hi All
> One more possible option would be to use hydrogen for aircraft fuel. It has
> a great weight advantage but also a severe volume disadvantage. This could
> be partly overcome if we remove the landing gear and have planes landing on
> ground vehicles.The landing gear on an Airbus 380 weighs the same as 200
> passengers and their luggage.
> A note with sketches is attached.
> Stephen
> Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design. School of Engineering, University
> of Edinburgh, Mayfield Road, Edinburgh EH9 3DW, Scotland s.sal...@ed.ac.uk
> <mailto:s.sal...@ed.ac.uk>, Tel +44 (0)131 650 5704, Cell 07795 203 195,
> WWW.homepages.ed.ac.uk/shs <http://www.homepages.ed.ac.uk/shs>, YouTube Jamie
> Taylor Power for Change
> On 18/04/2016 06:38, Greg Rau wrote:
>> Dear Michael,
>> Yes, we need "moral alternatives to the present madness", but just in case
>> all of those suggested aren't adopted in the next few decades it would seem
>> immoral not to at least hope for additional options just in case 1-11 don't
>> pan out in time. As for crossing the the "large scale", "totalitarian" and
>> "public debt" thresholds, something tells me that it's going to take some
>> very large scale, draconian implementation to execute 1-11 in the dwindling
>> time remaining, and many of these activities will require capital and
>> investment from somewhere.
>> Meanwhile, natural CDR seems to be doing a good job consuming more than half
>> of our CO2 emissions and actually reversing the air CO2 rise for a period
>> each year*. So given this positive example and the task we face, how
>> immoral might it be to see if there are safe and cost effectively ways to
>> increase or add to this natural CO2 uptake process just in case our journey
>> on more virtuous paths to a stable planet proves to take longer than
>> demanded by the recently lowered and oh so moral 1.5 Deg C warming limit?
>>
>> *
>> <https://scripps.ucsd.edu/programs/keelingcurve/wp-content/plugins/sio-bluemoon/graphs/mlo_two_years.pdf>https://scripps.ucsd.edu/programs/keelingcurve/wp-content/plugins/sio-bluemoon/graphs/mlo_two_years.pdf
>>
>> <https://scripps.ucsd.edu/programs/keelingcurve/wp-content/plugins/sio-bluemoon/graphs/mlo_two_years.pdf>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Greg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: NORTHCOTT Michael <m.northc...@ed.ac.uk> <mailto:m.northc...@ed.ac.uk>
>> To: "johnnissen2...@gmail.com" <mailto:johnnissen2...@gmail.com>
>> <johnnissen2...@gmail.com> <mailto:johnnissen2...@gmail.com>
>> Cc: "m...@psu.edu" <mailto:m...@psu.edu> <m...@psu.edu>
>> <mailto:m...@psu.edu>; "geoengineering@googlegroups.com"
>> <mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com> <geoengineering@googlegroups.com>
>> <mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>; Greg Rau <gh...@sbcglobal.net>
>> <mailto:gh...@sbcglobal.net>; James Hansen <jimehan...@gmail.com>
>> <mailto:jimehan...@gmail.com>; P. Wadhams <p...@cam.ac.uk>
>> <mailto:p...@cam.ac.uk>; John Topping <jtoppin...@yahoo.com>
>> <mailto:jtoppin...@yahoo.com>; Robert Corell <robert.cor...@getf.org>
>> <mailto:robert.cor...@getf.org>; Peter R Carter<petercarte...@shaw.ca>
>> <mailto:petercarte...@shaw.ca>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2016 12:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [geo] March temperature smashes 100-year global record
>>
>> Hi John
>>
>> The course of action to slow the rate of warming (it is 0.1 degree per
>> decade not 0.2) and ultimately to stop it requires all of the following.
>> Young people and climate activists the world over are calling for these
>> things and campaigning actively and at cost of their freedom sometimes to
>> bring them about:
>>
>> 1. Ending tropical forest burning
>> 2. Stopping building of new coal and oil fired power stations (Turkey and
>> India and S Africa are planning 100s) and ending coal extraction by China,
>> Indonesia, and even Australia, Germany US and UK who have no conceivable
>> need to continue extracting the stuff given the wealth already at the
>> disposal of their citizens and corporations
>> 3. Closing existing coal and oil fired electric power plants
>> 4. Reforesting uplands, reducing sheep grazing, and increasing uptake of co2
>> in agric land with biochar, compost etc
>> 5. Ending expansion of air sea and road travel and moving all road and sea
>> travel to electric vehicles and wind. Rationing air travel to gradually
>> shift international and national travellers to other means.
>> 6. Moving all electricity production to renewable power and battery /
>> reservoir storage of back up power.
>> 7. Reengineering older buildings with insulation.
>> 8. Requiring all new builds to generate own power and be zero carbon
>> 9. Reducing shipping and flying of food by favouring local over global food
>> production.
>> 10. Ending large scale animal husbandry and moving mainstream human protein
>> requirements to beans, vegetables etc.
>> 11. Favour pedestrians, cyclists and electric bikes, segways, electric
>> wheelchairs etc in all city planning and movement infrastructure
>>
>> Globally these measures would generate at least a billion of jobs, reduce
>> deaths from pollution, and reduce health costs of cancers, heart disease,
>> obesity and air pollution, and reduce concentrations of wealth by putting
>> capacity to generate power, grow food and move around back in the hands of
>> householders and local communities. None of them require large scale
>> totalitarian and public debt-based technologies of the kind represented by
>> CDR.
>>
>> We need moral alternatives to the present madness. We need to argue for them
>> in every possible forum and embrace them ourselves. Arming the future
>> against the sun is a counsel of despair.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> Professor of Ethics
>> University of Edinburgh
>>
>>
>> On 17 Apr 2016, at 17:10, John Nissen <
>> <mailto:johnnissen2...@gmail.com>johnnissen2...@gmail.com
>> <mailto:johnnissen2...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Professor Mann,
>>>
>>> Most of us would like to keep global warming below 1.5C this century. But
>>> we are way off course.
>>>
>>> Nobody likes to admit in public that we are already in dangerous territory.
>>> But we are!
>>>
>>> The rate of global warming (near-surface temperature rise) could now exceed
>>> 0.2 C per decade; CO2 is above 400 ppm (an excess of 120 ppm above
>>> pre-industrial 280 ppm) of which most will remain this century due to CO2's
>>> long lifetime in the atmosphere; and we have already had over 1 C
>>> anthropogenic global warming (AGW). This means that, even with the most
>>> drastic cut in CO2 emissions, we cannot avoid an extremely dangerous 3C
>>> this century without aggressive CO2 removal (CDR). Indeed, if we want to
>>> keep AGW below 1.5 C this century and halt ocean acidification, then we
>>> need to get global warming rate down below 0.05 C per decade, i.e. less
>>> than a quarter the current rate.
>>>
>>> Thus climate forcing has to be reduced by 75% within a decade or two, to
>>> have a chance to keep below 1.5 C this century.
>>>
>>> Thus we have to reduce the CO2 level to around 210 ppm (30 ppm above
>>> pre-industrial 280 ppm), and reduce methane from 1.8 ppm to around 1.0 ppm
>>> in order to reduce their combined forcing by 75%. This assumes we maintain
>>> aerosol cooling, especially the SO2 cooling from coal-fired power stations.
>>>
>>>
>>> This is exacerbated by climate forcing from the Arctic, at around 0.5 W/m2
>>> and rising exponentially as albedo loss accelerates.
>>>
>>> Therefore, in addition to urgent CO2 emissions reduction, we need (i)
>>> aggressive CDR so that CO2 is soon being removed from the atmosphere faster
>>> than than it is being emitted, (ii) suppression of methane emissions,
>>> especially fugitive methane (iii) rapid cooling of the Arctic to restore
>>> albedo, and (iv) maintenance of SO2 aerosol cooling, if global warming is
>>> to be kept below 1.5 C this century.
>>>
>>> Do you agree or can you suggest an alternative course of action to avert
>>> extreme danger?
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> John Nissen
>>> Chair, Arctic Methane Emergency Group (AMEG)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 3:22 AM, Greg Rau <gh...@sbcglobal.net
>>> <mailto:gh...@sbcglobal.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/apr/15/march-temperature-smashes-100-year-global-record>http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/apr/15/march-temperature-smashes-100-year-global-record
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/apr/15/march-temperature-smashes-100-year-global-record>
>>>>
>>> "The UK Met Office expects 2016 to set a new record
>>> <http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/17/2016-set-to-be-hottest-year-on-record-globally>,
>>> meaning the global temperature record is set to have been broken for three
>>> years in a row.
>>> Prof Michael Mann, a climate scientist at Penn State University in the US,
>>> responded to the March data by saying: “Wow. I continue to be shocked by
>>> what we are seeing.” He said the world had now been hovering close to the
>>> threshold of “dangerous” warming for two months, something not seen before.
>>> “The [new data] is a reminder of how perilously close we now are to
>>> permanently crossing into dangerous territory,” Mann said. “It underscores
>>> the urgency of reducing global carbon emissions.”
>>> GR - and the need to seriously consider additional ways of managing CO2 and
>>> climate.
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "geoengineering" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>>> email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
>>> To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>.
>>> Visit this group at
>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering>https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering
>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering>.
>>> For more options, visit
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>https://groups.google.com/d/optout
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "geoengineering" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>>> email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
>>> To post to this group, send email to
>>> <mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>geoengineering@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>.
>>> Visit this group at
>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering>https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering
>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering>.
>>> For more options, visit
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>https://groups.google.com/d/optout
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
>>
>> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
>> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "geoengineering" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
>> To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering
>> <https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering>.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "geoengineering" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
> To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering
> <https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering>.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
>
> The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in
> Scotland, with registration number SC005336.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "geoengineering" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> <mailto:unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.>
> To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com.
> <mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com.>
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "geoengineering" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>.
> To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering
> <https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering>.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"geoengineering" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
