I see the general usefulness of this analysis, but for this case, you don’t need this. You can assume that most of the local systems are pretty close to thermodynamic equilibrium. (You get in trouble with some of the highly reactive species, but what mostly matters here is radiation connecting the Earth, a reservoir at roughly 300K, to space, a reservoir near 3K. Of course there is some additional radiation, but it is also very small if you stay out of sunshine. So you can run a pretty conventional heat engine with the ambient temperature the hot reservoir, and space the cold reservoir. You make heat contact between the two via infrared radiation. In effect you can cool the cold side of your engine but letting it radiate out into space. As long as you are much warmer than 3K, it will radiate outward. This would work in space proper, but on Earth you will still see the higher atmosphere, which of course is still quite a bit warmer. The very high atmosphere is much hotter, but it is very much out of thermodynamic equilibrium and it is so thin that it does not really couple to infrared radiation. That is why it can stay hot.
Klaus From: <geoengineering@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Adrian Tuck <dr.adrian.t...@sciencespectrum.co.uk> Reply-To: "dr.adrian.t...@sciencespectrum.co.uk" <dr.adrian.t...@sciencespectrum.co.uk> Date: Sunday, February 11, 2018 at 23:00 To: Klaus Lackner <klaus.lack...@asu.edu> Cc: "david.app...@gmail.com" <david.app...@gmail.com>, geoengineering <geoengineering@googlegroups.com>, "voglerl...@gmail.com" <voglerl...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [geo] We can now harvest electricity from Earth's heat using quantum tunnelling Try this: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jpca.7b03112?ref=jpcafhVI-vaida-articles<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__pubs.acs.org_doi_10.1021_acs.jpca.7b03112-3Fref-3DjpcafhVI-2Dvaida-2Darticles&d=DwMFaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=hFjA8A8KwwhQx5qilpfIleTL0XYVr_fckT8DnwIEWlQ&m=7Py81jDnnywcp0Leiyzzv6y0o6vpsFYpaC-q4lVufDU&s=U__a030w0YngYr266wMihHnMI3ci0PFmMNkaNHGcb6k&e=> It’s open access. The problem is in defining the system, with the further difficulty that you cannot apply equilibrium thermodynamics to the the planet and its spatial environment. Adrian On 12 Feb 2018, at 03:08, Klaus Lackner <klaus.lack...@asu.edu<mailto:klaus.lack...@asu.edu>> wrote: I had an Intel student work this out in 2001, he actually won a price for it. The basic idea is the same, if you transmit infrared radiation to the sky the radiator cools and you can run a heat engine against ambient conditions. On 2/10/18, 18:41, "geoengineering@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com> on behalf of David Appell" <geoengineering@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com> on behalf of david.app...@gmail.com<mailto:david.app...@gmail.com>> wrote: The Second Law of Thermodynamics means you can't solely operate a heat engine from a cold bath to a warm bath -- whether the cold bath is the troposphere, or the ocean. But, as Michael Hayes mentioned, you *can* run a heat engine between the troposphere (or surface) and space. But building such a technology is quite difficult, of course. His PNAS citation is an interesting read. David On 2/10/2018 11:39 AM, Michael Hayes wrote: Hi Folks, In this overall category of tech, Emissive Energy Harvesting is about 4-5 years old now: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.pnas.org_content_111_11_3927.short&d=DwIBaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=hFjA8A8KwwhQx5qilpfIleTL0XYVr_fckT8DnwIEWlQ&m=dy2A13_wuvWQ7hYFJAiYBxIZ5XjK4UiiFjH6Y-9DfLE&s=_fB1-2GfT6em9MKNolZeIVjX8kXpyO3bSSxDqWUl4Io&e= The mid-infrared energy can be converted to energy that can be either used as electrical energy or simply beamed off the planet without affecting the atmosphere. I suspect work in the field of metamaterials will expand the options this field of tech. Best regards, Michael -- David Appell, freelance science writer e: david.app...@gmail.com<mailto:david.app...@gmail.com> p: 503-975-5614 w: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.davidappell.com&d=DwIBaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=hFjA8A8KwwhQx5qilpfIleTL0XYVr_fckT8DnwIEWlQ&m=dy2A13_wuvWQ7hYFJAiYBxIZ5XjK4UiiFjH6Y-9DfLE&s=UTDyaXwLbJHDijXAF1WPwcioe19gs19vbfPlJJdVYJ4&e= t: @davidappell b: https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__davidappell.blogspot.com&d=DwIBaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=hFjA8A8KwwhQx5qilpfIleTL0XYVr_fckT8DnwIEWlQ&m=dy2A13_wuvWQ7hYFJAiYBxIZ5XjK4UiiFjH6Y-9DfLE&s=3eWh3iBldUHy7nfcLPM_4K8AqyjmYOWirhUV3gl5x04&e= m: Salem, Oregon, USA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>. Visit this group at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_group_geoengineering&d=DwIBaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=hFjA8A8KwwhQx5qilpfIleTL0XYVr_fckT8DnwIEWlQ&m=dy2A13_wuvWQ7hYFJAiYBxIZ5XjK4UiiFjH6Y-9DfLE&s=OwIerIFJz7Zznxc-ONQCqvjV7FvAc6IjWgzmg3oqSqo&e=. For more options, visit https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_d_optout&d=DwIBaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=hFjA8A8KwwhQx5qilpfIleTL0XYVr_fckT8DnwIEWlQ&m=dy2A13_wuvWQ7hYFJAiYBxIZ5XjK4UiiFjH6Y-9DfLE&s=a2PbOFSuH1ozHeVza7CCOQODUzEv1a-aPyCmFkoI_bQ&e=. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_group_geoengineering&d=DwMFaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=hFjA8A8KwwhQx5qilpfIleTL0XYVr_fckT8DnwIEWlQ&m=7Py81jDnnywcp0Leiyzzv6y0o6vpsFYpaC-q4lVufDU&s=WlZORJX3OpcVlPGCBojDw7_FlxmUFaqp-Uk1LJwy9jQ&e=>. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_d_optout&d=DwMFaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=hFjA8A8KwwhQx5qilpfIleTL0XYVr_fckT8DnwIEWlQ&m=7Py81jDnnywcp0Leiyzzv6y0o6vpsFYpaC-q4lVufDU&s=zqfz_bLB5y1kc_pBpg9pKciE8U4B12cYOWB-DQtKeDE&e=>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com<mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com>. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_group_geoengineering&d=DwMFaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=hFjA8A8KwwhQx5qilpfIleTL0XYVr_fckT8DnwIEWlQ&m=7Py81jDnnywcp0Leiyzzv6y0o6vpsFYpaC-q4lVufDU&s=WlZORJX3OpcVlPGCBojDw7_FlxmUFaqp-Uk1LJwy9jQ&e=>. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__groups.google.com_d_optout&d=DwMFaQ&c=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ&r=hFjA8A8KwwhQx5qilpfIleTL0XYVr_fckT8DnwIEWlQ&m=7Py81jDnnywcp0Leiyzzv6y0o6vpsFYpaC-q4lVufDU&s=zqfz_bLB5y1kc_pBpg9pKciE8U4B12cYOWB-DQtKeDE&e=>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
