Cross posting as more SRM. I've heard this "we can't do anything about SLR" argument before, but I'm not convinced. Ice sheets only care about temperature at the margins (ablation zone). The principle driver in the accumulation zone is precipitation. Is there a way to drive increased precip, using targeted MCB/CCT to enhance or redirect snow?
There's also a whole host of glacier arrest techniques, which can be used in isolation or parallel, to slow ablation. I've not seen any modelling of the above, but I suspect that we can do more than we currently think. Andrew On Fri, 8 Feb 2019, 01:47 Eelco Rohling <[email protected] wrote: > Good luck with that, Jim. The polar ice sheets are the real worry, not > thermal expansion. We see massive increases in the mass-shedding in both > polar regions. > And in the long term polar amplification is dominated by albedo changes, > not by changes in heat advection. > Cheers > Eelco > === > > Prof. Eelco J. Rohling > (Ocean & Climate Change) > *2012 Australian Laureate Fellow* > *editor, Reviews of Geophysics* > Research School of Earth Sciences > The Australian National University > Canberra, ACT 0200 > Australia > > Mobile: (+61) 434 667441 > Tel. Office: (+61) 2 612 53857 > e-mail: [email protected] > > personal WebURL: *http://www.highstand.org/erohling/ejrhome.htm > <http://www.highstand.org/erohling/ejrhome.htm>* > > On 8 Feb 2019, at 12:03, Jim Baird <[email protected]> wrote: > > My rebutal. > <image001.jpg> > > > And here: https://www.energycentral.com/c/ec/energy-greed-good > > Though I agree the timescale will take about 3,250 years to convert the > accumulated to useful work and then to radiate the waste heat of this > consumption back to space. > *From:* [email protected] < > [email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Eelco Rohling > *Sent:* Thursday, February 7, 2019 4:09 PM > *To:* Clive Elsworth <[email protected]> > *Cc:* Carbon Dioxide Removal <[email protected]> > *Subject:* Re: [CDR] Carbon capture technologies not yet mature for > large-scale use, German gov says | Clean Energy Wire > > Dear Clive > > Just to help you (and others) out of the dream that sea-level rise might > be stoppable where it is now or even reversed. > From all we can reconstruct, nothing we can do will halt sea-level rise on > societally relevant timescales. It’s simply set to rise for a long time > because we have already triggered the slow response of ice sheets and the > delayed warming of the ocean. Whatever we do might (seen in the > time-domain) slow the rise down a bit, or (seen in the vertical domain for > a chosen timeslot) reduce the amplitude a bit. But rise it will, and a lot > too, so long as climate stays out of radiative equilibrium. Equilibrium sea > level for ~400 ppm CO2 can be read from Earth history to be +24 +7/−15 m above > present at 68% confidence ( > http://www.highstand.org/erohling/Rohling-papers/2013-Foster-PNAS-with-Supplement.pdf > ). > Even if we brought the radiative balance tomorrow back tomorrow to the > pre-industrial equivalent (either through carbon removal, or through > aerosol management, or both) - and there is no chance that we could manage > that - the past 200 years of forcing are already driving the slow > feedbacks. All we might accomplish is to slow their direction of response > and eventually (on equally long timescales, or even longer given that ice > melt is a lot faster than ice growth) drive a reversing trend. It’s a > multi-century game at best. > > Cheers > > Eelco > === > > Prof. Eelco J. Rohling > (Ocean & Climate Change) > *2012 Australian Laureate Fellow* > *editor, Reviews of Geophysics* > Research School of Earth Sciences > The Australian National University > Canberra, ACT 0200 > Australia > > Mobile: (+61) 434 667441 > Tel. Office: (+61) 2 612 53857 > e-mail: [email protected] > > personal WebURL: *http://www.highstand.org/erohling/ejrhome.htm > <http://www.highstand.org/erohling/ejrhome.htm>* > > > On 8 Feb 2019, at 10:10, Clive Elsworth <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Once again, not only does reforestation directly drawdown more CO2. Trees > also provide natural rock weathering that provides alkalinity that runs off > into the oceans, enabling them to absorb more CO2. > > That still won’t be enough to halt Sea Level Rise though. The best tool > for that appears to me to be Iron Salt Aerosol, with its promise of MCB > from 0.05µm droplets. (The Twoomey effect > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twomey_effect> makes brighter clouds from > smaller droplets.) > > In addition, an estimated *quadrupling* of the natural methane depletion > rate is something I find hard to ignore: > https://climategamechangers.org/game-changers/iron-salt-aerosol/technical_qa_atmosphere/ > > We welcome comments from MCB experts, as we would like to better quantify > our MCB cooling estimates. > > Clive Elsworth > > *From:* [email protected] < > [email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Adam Cherson > *Sent:* 07 February 2019 16:10 > *To:* Carbon Dioxide Removal <[email protected]> > *Subject:* [CDR] Re: Carbon capture technologies not yet mature for > large-scale use, German gov says | Clean Energy Wire > > While I don't want to venture too far into the internal politics of > another country (my time would be better spent locally), there is truth in > the statement of "no sufficient knowledge base". Of course it is also true > that if the development of that base is not stimulated, or worse, arrested, > then the field will remain immature for a long time. if not forever. > Current analysis shows that emissions reductions and "ecosystem-based > approaches" are not going to be sufficient nor rapid enough to fully > address the problem, so therefore the field of CDR should and must be > fomented intensively in any serious policy attempt to provide a satisfying > remedy. Good day....... > > On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 6:56:25 PM UTC-5, Andrew Lockley wrote: > > > https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/carbon-capture-technologies-not-yet-mature-large-scale-use-german-gov-says > > 05 Feb 2019, 13:33 > > Benjamin Wehrmann <https://www.cleanenergywire.org/about-us-clew-team> > Carbon capture technologies not yet mature for large-scale use, German gov > says > *Climate & CO2* <https://www.cleanenergywire.org/topics/Climate+%26+CO2> > > > Clean Energy Wire > > Technologies for removing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere are not yet > technically mature enough to contribute to climate action, the German > government has said in an answer > <http://dip21.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/19/074/1907400.pdf>to a > parliamentary inquiry by the pro-business party FDP > <https://www.cleanenergywire.org/experts/fdp-free-democratic-party>. > There is “no sufficient knowledge base” to assess the usefulness of carbon > removal technology, which is why Germany favoured emissions reduction and > achieving negative emissions through “ecosystem-based approaches”. > The UN’s climate change panel (IPCC) considers so-called negative > emissions necessary to meet the targets of the Paris Climate Agreement > <https://www.cleanenergywire.org/glossary/letter_p#paris_climate_agreement>. > Ccarbon capture and storage > <https://www.cleanenergywire.org/glossary/letter_s#storage> (CCS > <https://www.cleanenergywire.org/glossary/letter_c#ccs>) technologies or > by biological solutions, such as reforestation, are ways to achieve them. > *All texts created by the Clean Energy Wire are available under > a “Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International Licence (CC BY 4.0)” > <https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/>. They can be copied, shared > and made publicly accessible by users so long as they give appropriate > credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made.* > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Carbon Dioxide Removal" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > . > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/CarbonDioxideRemoval. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/CarbonDioxideRemoval/1c00d329-d1f1-424b-aef9-4ee452517c42%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/CarbonDioxideRemoval/1c00d329-d1f1-424b-aef9-4ee452517c42%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Carbon Dioxide Removal" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > . > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/CarbonDioxideRemoval. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/CarbonDioxideRemoval/01fb01d4bf3a%24486935d0%24d93ba170%24%40EndorphinSoftware.co.uk > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/CarbonDioxideRemoval/01fb01d4bf3a%24486935d0%24d93ba170%24%40EndorphinSoftware.co.uk?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Carbon Dioxide Removal" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > . > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/CarbonDioxideRemoval. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/CarbonDioxideRemoval/80FE8328-7D88-49A7-AF8D-DB90A93B7AAF%40uds.anu.edu.au > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/CarbonDioxideRemoval/80FE8328-7D88-49A7-AF8D-DB90A93B7AAF%40uds.anu.edu.au?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Carbon Dioxide Removal" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > . > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/CarbonDioxideRemoval. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/CarbonDioxideRemoval/BABB9932-CA6E-4D99-A9FD-829DF46D1527%40uds.anu.edu.au > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/CarbonDioxideRemoval/BABB9932-CA6E-4D99-A9FD-829DF46D1527%40uds.anu.edu.au?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. 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