>From: Karin Van Veen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Very well explained! That is part of the reason.....<
But....
1) Placing just a couple gerbils isnt the same as placing ALL the gerbils...
Placing a couple wont prevent you from continuing to breed and research
there in your controlled enviroment. It just enables more people to work on
the variety and check back with you and share results.
2) Im very knowledgable about genetics, would keep good records and be happy
to share them. Im not going to try getting every possible new colour
imaginable as fast as possible. I'd want to instead first develop a
healthy, line of them with more diverse genepool for their population here
before worrying about getting all kinds of new colours. Id be using mostly
black and dove lines for this since these are the most unrelated lines I can
find with excellent health and that don't have the slate colour in them
which may cause some confusion in the beginning.
>But also, because we have
>had (and still have) big problems when breeding animals with this gene. The
>females often have problems while giving birth, and often the pups die, but
>also the mother often dies.<
This problem has also occured with blue rats. I have the experience in
dealing with difficult breeding lines like this which would both help me
cope with the issue, make good choices in breeding, spot potential problems
early on so that vet care can be obtained in time to do good and be able to
work on correcting the problem. If this is a problem with the initial
stock, I wouldnt be placing any of them either until this is satisfactorly
remidied, and even then, only to experienced, knowledgable, responsible
breeders with caution.
>This is probably due to too much inbreeding at
>the university where the animals came from (they where held there as feeder
>animals). So we are doing a lot of out crossing with healthy, unrelated
>animals, but this goes very slow, <
If inbreeding is a major concern, placing animals to responsible,
genetically knowledgable individuals would be a perfect way to remedy the
situtation, and much faster too. And not faster becausewe would hurry thru
it! No no, I have spent years, even decades developing special lines in
other species, you dont rush these things. BUT you would have more people
working on it. If you only did 2 outcrosses a year, you would be able to do
TWICE as many if you placed a pair to a fellow fancier who also did 2
outcrosses a year.
>people will want to breed as much blues as possible, and will not be
>willing to outcross the "precious" animals.<
This is why Ihad hoped you would concider sending me some. Because I
wouldnt be breeding as many as possible to place. I breed manx (tailless)
rats and there were genetic problems there (actually not really SB, I have
good physical type in them and thats very rare in my line with good
selections) butit was with temperment. I felt so strongly about this that
for years, i didnt place ANY of the rats from this line, not even tailled
outcrosses, not even as "pets only" because I didnt want to risk them
purposefully or accidently being bred and passing on somethign undesirable
to other rodentries and lines. Not until I was certain that I fixed the
problems I was cconcerned about did I consider placing any of them. I kept
EVERY rat from the litters I didnt place too- I don't cull etc, I made sure
I had room and resources first to handle all the animals. This not only was
important to me because I dont beleive in culling healthy animals, but
because It permitted me to watch their health and temperment as they aged.
The result has been a line that I have also been able to select for long
term health, and are soem of the healthiest animals that live the longest
out of the species compaired to other fancy rat lines in the area.
Now that i have "fixed" the major problems in that line (I still breed that
line though and work on improoving it, but Im happy and comfortable placing
them now) I have my attention on hirschprung disease in rats. This is a
major genetic problem in local lines. Theres lab rats that have this
disease where it simple recessive, but in the case of our rats, its
polygenetic and soem breeders locally have had it in as many as 8 or 9 out
of 10 lines!
So you see, this is how id be approaching a new trait in a species,
especially if theres some problems to work out. Thats how Id be handling
the blue gerbils.
>The person at the university who discovered them, and asked ..."
Ive no interest in writing any thesises or professional journal articles
etc. Just in developing a healthy population this side of the ocean, which
would be beneficial to the species since you KNOW that people will soon as
they can get them for pet breeding, want to breed allkinds of colours as
much as possible, like the fox colours got so popular, so if thats going to
happen down the line, at least we can establish a good healthy population
first so that the gerbils dont suffer any major problems later on. Would he
consider such placement if he knew how I was going to go about breeding them
and why, and if I put in writing I wouldnt write anything about them?
Certainly there is no harm in asking?
".... it won't be before 2002 that the blues
>will be "released"...."
If you have a date set or expected, i wouldnt mind at all puttign in writing
I wont place any either until then. Its just we are planning a shipment and
its not everyday we do these things. Its simply taking advantage of a
flight that is being planned to get them across the ocean. Why wait a year
and spend hundreds of dollars to ship them, when it could be done now for
practically nothing?
".... The thesis
>cannot be written yet either, due to too few data we have.... "
Id be happy to forward my data for use in this. I KNOW that my lines arent
like the lab ones that maybe hundreds of generations inbred or bred to some
other specifications. BUT I do keep complete records, fur samples, etc as
far back as is known, and it can provide useful data to compair to results
there. I can also get you refferences from my vet who is one of the most
respected in the country for exotics/rodents and If I am really really nice
to the dr and you think i could help with stuff there, =) I might be able
to get soem analysis done at the brookfield zoo, they have a big genetic lab
there whcih is mostly used for researching endangered species and sexing
their humbolt penuins, but soemtimes they do other stuff too.
~A.G.
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