Great, thanks for the update! I am not at all surprised to hear that this whole thing is being considered intelligently and carefully. :)
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 10:30 AM Boespflug, Mathieu <m...@tweag.io> wrote: > Hi Bryan, > > the discussion has continued on the original PR for the GHC proposal. See > https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/111#issuecomment-583795811 > and > following comments. > > The tl;dr is that the concerns raised about performance are far too > premature: for their own curiosity someone ran a few benchmarks on the > branch of a merge request marked as WIP in the title and which has not yet > been performance optimized. See also > https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/f0jigv/im_concerned_about_the_longterm_impact_of_the/fgxwk9w/. > The conditions that would need to be satisfied before a merge are clear and > include performance requirements: > https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/111#issuecomment-431944078 > . > > On Wed, 19 Feb 2020 at 09:10, Bryan Richter <b...@chreekat.net> wrote: > >> Is this true? 6-7% slowdown across the board for all users and all use >> cases of GHC? >> >> No segment of the community uses all of GHC's features. I, for one, >> appreciate GHC for its usability and not just its type level wizardry. A >> great way to improve GHC's usability is to improve compile times. If this >> does the opposite for everybody, whether they use these new features or >> not, I am nonplussed. >> >> If Carter is trying to raise concern about this feature, he has been >> successful. :) >> >> >> On Sat, 8 Feb 2020, 2.37 Carter Schonwald, <carter.schonw...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> https://github.com/ghc-proposals/ghc-proposals/pull/111#issuecomment-583664586 >>> >>> >>> https://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/f0jigv/im_concerned_about_the_longterm_impact_of_the/ >>> >>> As current maintainer of vector, and a member of the CLC, both of which >>> roles really should be AFFIRMATIONAL stakeholders in this, I only see costs >>> and concerns. >>> >>> As someone who's spent the past few years doing a LOT of modelling and >>> prototyping around marrying linear logic, formal methods, and functional >>> programming in an applied industrial setting, i should be an Affirmational >>> stakeholder. yet again I am not. >>> >>> theres very real costs in the complexity and scope of impact that impact >>> EVERY single user and stakeholder of ghc and haskell. And I do not see any >>> concrete population that benefits. >>> >>> >>> cale even makes a very constructive and articulate point >>> >>> > I don't know how much my opinion matters at this point, but I'd really >>> like to see the non-toy real-world use cases of this before I can even >>> consider thinking that it would be a good idea to merge to the main >>> compiler. It has such a huge potential impact on so many people in the >>> Haskell community: >>> > >>> > * Library maintainers who start getting PRs that make >>> "improvements" to linearity while making their libraries harder to maintain >>> because their interface becomes more rigid, and harder to understand >>> because the types are more complicated. >>> > >>> > * Beginners, or simply ordinary users of the language who have to >>> pay the mental overhead of living with the linear types and polymorphism >>> spreading everywhere as types are adjusted to make terms more usable in >>> places where one is concerned with linearity. >>> > >>> > * Commercial users of the language who pay for the additional time >>> taken by all their employees waiting for the compiler to run, regardless of >>> whether or not they're using the extension. If Carter's 6-7% slowdown is >>> real even in cases where one doesn't care about the extension, I can >>> imagine wanting to make a fork without the extension. The compiler is >>> already 2 orders of magnitude slower than I'd like. If that weren't the >>> case, maybe 6-7% wouldn't be a huge deal. While ghci is often helpful at >>> shortening the feedback loop, it's not always a viable solution. >>> > >>> > >>> > But really, I just want to know how anyone would put this to practical >>> use in a real setting -- it needs to be _really_ compelling to make up for >>> the social cost. It can't be that hard for Tweag, or someone enthusiastic, >>> to live on a fork until they have a decent case study to show the world, so >>> we can say "okay, that's actually really cool, maybe we actually want that >>> everywhere". >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ghc-devs mailing list >>> ghc-devs@haskell.org >>> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> ghc-devs mailing list >> ghc-devs@haskell.org >> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ghc-devs >> >
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