As Ben and others say, Matrix provides many modern features new users will
expect, while preserving the spirit of IRC. Without wading into the details,
the design of Matrix I find impressive and to my liking, and it has seemed to
get steadily better over time for quite a while now.
Re Zulip, in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27202838 one of the lead
Matrix devs says their up-and-coming threading model aims to support what Zulip
does and they've been discussing deeper integration with Zulip. Granted, It
would be better to hear about those discussions from the Zulip side as Matrix
aims to assimilate everything and Zulip could have some reservations, but I
remain hopeful. (I certainly would like to see culled the current explosion of
mutually-incompatible chat applications, leaving us with fewer protocols but as
many competing implementations.)
What I recommend for now that we make some official Matrix channels, but also bridge them with the
libera.chat ones once the bridge is up (should be a few days). Creating a matrix room and bridging
it is a bit different underneath the hood than using a channel generated by the bridge on demand.
We can give them nice names on the matrix side, and basically keep both options open of being
"IRC-first" or "Matrix-first" down the road.
For reference, see https://matrix.to/#/#community:nixos.org?via=nixos.org which is the Matrix
"Space" (room that is a directory of sub-rooms, filling the role of a Discord
"server") that Nix community created while they debate what to do next. See also
https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs/pull/94 where this same discussion is playing out.
John
On 5/21/21 4:00 PM, Iavor Diatchki wrote:
As I said, I am not a heavy IRC user, for my online chatting needs I mostly use
Mattermost, Discord, and Slack. So I don't have an informed opinion on the
technical merits of the various platforms---mostly I've heard that the Matrix
clients and servers are quite a bit less robust than IRC ones but I've never
personally used them.
If there is a feeling that GHC wants to use a new chatting platform, by all means we should try it
out. I just don't think that the unfortunate situation with free-node is a good reason to drop IRC
entirely. Despite its flows, I think it has served our community well, and while it may look
"old" to "young" users it does have the benefit of being pretty stable, unlike
the myriad of chatting services that seem to be popping up all the time.
-Iavor
On Fri, May 21, 2021 at 10:41 AM Ben Gamari <b...@smart-cactus.org> wrote:
Iavor Diatchki <iavor.diatc...@gmail.com> writes:
Hello,
I am not a heavy IRC user, but I'd say it makes most sense to just use
Libera. It is essentially the same people that were running free-node
running pretty much the exact same service, and I believe they are trying
to make it extra easy to just switch, so this should be the least effort
transition.
I believe IRC has served the GHC community quite well so far, and there is
a reddit post by Ed Kmett that the normal Haskell channels have already
been transitioned over, so I think it makes sense for GHC to stick with the
rest of the Haskell community.
The problem is that, in order to grow (or even merely not to shrink),
the community also needs to adapt to the preferences of younger users.
The fact of the matter is the younger users tend to be, at best,
unfamiliar with IRC. In the worst case, the need to leave a browser/sign
up for a new account means that they simply won't participate. Of the
new contributors I have had approach me in the past year, less than half
have had any familiarity with IRC.
Matrix has the advantage of being accessible to "web-native" community
members while being open enough to (at least in principle) allow
community members who are accustomed to IRC to continue to participate
via a bridge.
Cheers,
- Ben
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