This is going to be my last reply in this thread. Let me start by saying that I am not an anti-AI absolutist like some in this thread have repeatedly try to paint me as. I have been using LLMs for almost a year now, have been experimenting with them and found interesting use cases. Sometimes they seem to enable me and sometimes they lead me into psychological traps. And they do so regularly. I have also observed what I believe are their effects on the open source ecosystem. So here is my boiled down evaluation:
- they can compromise the judgement of (senior) engineers - they erode human communication and collaboration - while they can act as an accessibility boost, they do not on average promote curiosity or learning So the central over-arching question we're trying to solve here is: IS THERE A RESPONSIBLE USE OF LLMs? I think there might be. But we also have to accept the possibility that the answer is "no". So the question is, how do we move forward in this uncertainty. I think there might be ways, but they are all fairly impractical in a passive society: - gaining control over the alignment and "algorithms" - running local models - promoting and supporting more evidence-based research - boycotting the "AI empire" (the frontier model companies who very clearly only have our best interests in mind) Maybe we might reach a point of responsible use in the future, but not in the current landscape of sycophantic LLMs, companies who see us as products and a general lack of public awareness of their dangers. But that is not all. What all of this has exposed too is our self-image and understanding of our craft. What is software engineering to us? Just the production of high quality code? I have always followed the principle of being able to collaborate with people who hold different views than me, political or otherwise. I found this one of the primary qualities of open source, where disagreements just boil down to quality standards and design taste. But this time it appears it's different. Your use of LLMs affects us, affects the ecosystem, affects our trust relationships, our ability to derive joy from interactions. I have not seen that so-called responsible use yet, not at work or anywhere else. It is not a reality. I do not believe people when the say "I know how to use it responsibly". I think the only honest position is to have a deep intrinsic self-doubt about ones own capacity to deal with this technology. Does that mean we should stop trying? I don't really know. That's up to the project to decide what risks they want to take. But what Moritz is proposing is not going to get us any closer to that goal. It is just extending the global experiment that was brought onto us. And I object. I do not think that carving out a huge list of dos and don'ts will actually address the primary issues that the LLM interface is posing to humans, which are about the psychological effects and our values (which he calls "ideological", but I think that is inaccurate, because it largely affects our craft). And Moritz clearly does not want to talk about either of those. And I finally agree with Moritz, that the policy as it is right now is biased. It is trying to please both sides, but carries subtle implicit judgements. And I have changed my mind about it. I do no longer support it. The only policy I will support is a blanket LLM ban, because I think this is (right now) the best we can do to regain control, take a breath and continue the journey with caution. But it might not be a good decision for the GHC project, which is why I will stop engaging in these discussions, which appear to already have caused some harm. I am not a top or core contributor to the project and my words should not carry as much weight as, say, Simon, Moritz, or anyone else. But I believe there is no neutral stance. Not taking a stand means to silently agree to the global experiment. So I am taking a stand here: if LLMs are here to stay, so are humans and I value humans and their authentic work more. So I will focus on the things I can do myself to protect my mental health, my values and maintain my enjoyment in programming. Cheers, Julian _______________________________________________ ghc-devs mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
