hi Simon, I appreciate very much you writing a long post on this thread. it has halted, for the moment, my slide out of the GIMP project that was being propelled by no (GUI) developer responding whatsoever.
since I received your post I have been thinking a lot about about what to reply, how to say and structure it. here is a try: > peter sikking (pe...@mmiworks.net) wrote: >> the outreach, endowment, the relationships, they need to >> be recovered and this time explicitly, in writing, here on >> this list, not in gone-tomorrow talk on irc. > > At the libre graphics meeting we had the usual gimp meeting and also > discussed the problems that currently seems to make it impossible for you > to continue working on GIMP. > > In the meeting there was the general consensus that the collaboration > with you was very successful and we'd like it to continue. this sounds encouraging, however, the public meeting minutes do not contain a word on this topic. that is again discouraging. > I really hope > that the differences between you and - I think - mostly Mitch can be > resolved and everybody can return to the fun parts of GIMP development. of course what is happening now is simply a continuation of our meeting at last year’s lgm in Vienna. a lot of outspoken things were said there, but at the end both Mitch and I avoided to confront each other. that is how both our characters are: outspoken but avoiding real confrontation. it did leave real issues unresolved. > Anyway, before this can happen we need to rehash what happened, try to > understand the issues and try to come up with a plan to resolve this. > > Now - I understand that this problem is not just about UTT but the > general expectations on how we collaborate on the interaction design. > However, since the UTT seems to be the elephant in the room I'll focus > on that one for now, we should try to resolve this first. basically the issues came back to haunt us for the UTT. it has become clear to me in recent times that the whole thing can be summarised as: over the last couple of years GIMP has been sliding back from a project where making good UI meant something, to an engineering project where any inconvenience for developers that follows from interaction design and usability work is either loudly protested against or circumvented by simply doing something else in code. and now GIMP as a project, and especially Mitch as maintainer, must make a choice whether making good UI means anything anymore, at GIMP. every time I think of going into one or more points of the UTT story, I have to conclude half an hour later that it is better not to. I think we better first figure out these general expectations on how we collaborate. the UTT can follow from there. [long snip] > We're now in the weird situation that you're pissed towards - at least - > M&M, because they supposedly fail to respect your work and Mitch is > likewise pissed because you supposedly are unwilling to respect the work > from Mikatchu and him that has gone into the invisible part of the tool. > > Frankly, I believe this aspect is something only a real-world-meeting > between mitch and you can resolve, I'll gladly donate the beer. we need to find a way. irc has shown for years not to work for discussing user interaction. it may work for engineering but UI is too complex for a low bandwidth medium like irc. after trying for a week to write this email, I conclude that the mailing list is also not the forum to do this. I do think we need some kind of meeting. > I sincerely hope that we can get this specific issue worked out and then > broaden the discussion to the "overall" collaboration. I won't do this > now, because this mail already is too long, and loading more potentially > loaded issues won't help. > I really want to stress, that - contrary to your perception - there is a > lot of trust in you and your work, I think the defense of the save vs. > export design has proven that. yes, I thanked the developers for that in Vienna, many a software company would not have the nerve to not buckle under such vocal protest. but, as Kate pointed out to me at that time, save + export is completely uncontroversial and logical from a technology point of view, so it is not leap-of-faith support that really counts: when developers cannot see the point, but trust the designer and implement anyway. > In fact it is not only trust but also > interest, which on the other hand means that sometimes your designs get > challenged. Please don't take that as questioning your competence. encouraging words, but the last years show that developers trust themselves more on the topic of user interaction when it is time to take action. this is not only on module level, more and more when it is about the big sweeping interaction topics and implications of wild ideas, I am asked not to contribute big picture analysis. it seems to take the fun out of aiming at your foot with a gun. --ps founder + principal interaction architect man + machine interface works http://blog.mmiworks.net: on interaction architecture _______________________________________________ gimp-developer-list mailing list gimp-developer-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer-list