Dear Josmar,

As for the GROMOS FF, I've included a link to the paper describing the most recent (AFAIK) version of the FF in one of the recent mailing list massages.

Good luck,
Ran

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:56:11 -0400
 "Justin A. Lemkul" <jalem...@vt.edu> wrote:


Josmar R. da Rocha wrote:
Dear Ran,

Thanks for answering and sorry to take so long to reply. After your response I went seach for more information about that. What I read here in the list is that some people uses antechamber to generate am1-bcc charges (or RESP charges using Gaussian program) and convert the output files to a .top file (using the amb2gmx.pl script) that can be used in gromacs, however, nobody says the kind of ff they intend to use that charges with. Do these type of charges can also be used with Gromos96 ff ( 43a1)? Thanks in advance!


The amb2gmx was created to handle AMBER-to-GROMACS conversion. It is unlikely that it would be useful for ffG43a1. Since 43a1 is a united-atom force field, you have to compensate for the fact that nonpolar hydrogen atoms are absent. Furthermore, quantum charge calculation is not a necessary component of Gromos96 parameter derivation. See, for example:

http://wiki.gromacs.org/index.php/Parameterization

-Justin

Regards,

Josmar Rocha

--- Em *sex, 27/3/09, Ran Friedman, Biochemisches Inst. /<r.fried...@bioc.uzh.ch>/* escreveu:

    De: Ran Friedman, Biochemisches Inst. <r.fried...@bioc.uzh.ch>
    Assunto: Re: [gmx-users] HF/6-31G** ESP derived charges to replace
    PRODRG assigned ones
    Para: bije...@yahoo.com.br, "Discussion list for GROMACS users"
    <gmx-users@gromacs.org>
    Data: Sexta-feira, 27 de Março de 2009, 17:35

    Dear Josmar,

You haven't written which force field you plan to use. For OPLS and AMBER QM-based optimisation should be fine. In Gromos, the FF was developed with the aim of reproducing experimental results and I'm not sure if you can find a better solution than examining other residues with the same chemical moieties or use the same approach as reported in the relevant manuscripts. Some software packages can also be used - these are mostly proprietary and not so easy to use.

Once you derive the parameters, it's a good idea to make some test runs of the ligands and see if they behave as expected before you actually run a
    simulation with the
     protein. For example, if a conjugate ring system isn't
    planar something may be wrong in the setting.

    There's no easy solution - this is why it's considered an advanced
topic. It is, however, very important. I've encountered a ligand that leaves its binding site during a simulation due to wrong parameters (in this case, the protonation of a protein side chain - FEBS 581, Pages 4120-4124, 2007).

    Hope that helped,
    Ran

    On Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:22:01 -0700 (PDT)
     "Josmar R. da Rocha" <bije...@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
    > Dear users,
> > I have been reading some posts about using externally computed charges to replace Prodrg charges at ligand topology files. Many users commented on the low
    trustability given to Prodrg charges (e.g
    http://www.mail-archive.com/gmx-users@gromacs.org/msg02360.html ;
http://www.mail-archive.com/gmx-users@gromacs.org/msg17351.html ). Dr. Verli
    pointed out the
     use of semi-empirical methods such as RM1 in cases not involving
simulations with sulphate or phosphate groups (what is not my case) and the use of QM methods with the 6-31G** basis set, for example, to obtain robust charges (http://www.mail-archive.com/gmx-users@gromacs.org/msg03410.html). On the other hand Dr. Mobley defined as a "a bad idea to compute charges for an all-atom case using QM and then try to convert these to a united atom force field". Other users advice that the best charges are that compatible with the force
    field parametrization
    > (http://www.mail-archive.com/gmx-users@gromacs.org/msg10760.html ;
http://www.mail-archive.com/gmx-users@gromacs.org/msg08308.html), usually pointing to http://wiki.gromacs.org/index.php/Parameterization. Dr Friedman suggested that "to calculate the electrostatic potential over the whole molecule, and fit the atomic charges so that they reproduce this potential"
    in
order to make it less sensitive to small changes in the geometry of the
    molecule may give good results
(http://www.mail-archive.com/gmx-users@gromacs.org/msg08308.html). Dr. Lemkul stressed the need for charges refinement to reproduce experimentally-observed
    behavior while trying to use QM charges with Gromos ff. since
"Parameterization under Gromos usually involves empirical derivation of
    physical parameters, and free energy calculations using thermodynamic
    integration". Few examples of protein-ligand studies using Gromacs and
Gromos96 ff that I have access (from literature) seem to treat it as "take it for granted" issue (any reference with a more detailed description would be welcome :-)). Despite reading on this topic I could not compile all the information in a clear and objective way (may be because I'm in the wrong track). Let ask you some question that I find would help me to make my ideas
    more
     clear:
> > > 1-am I overestimating the importance of ligand charges in such a simple study of protein-small molecule (containg charged Phosphate groups) complex? or > > 1.1-The only way to test for this is doing many different simulation on the same system using different type of computed charges to see what happen? > > 2-How could I try to choose a method to obtain reasonable charges based on
    the reproduction of experimentally-observed behavior if I do not have
    experimental data for my system?
> > 3-I also would like to know from users dealing with protein-ligand interactions studies what do you consider a good approach to address this
    problem?
> > Based on what I read I'd have a tendency to use HF/6-31G** ESP derived charges (with necessary changes as to make it united-atom charges and scaling
    that to a integer number for each group). Please, let me know if
     that strategy
would be as good as a disaster! > Thank you very much for the attention. > > > Josmar Rocha > > > > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
    > http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com




------------------------------------------------------------------------
Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! + Buscados: Top 10 <http://br.rd.yahoo.com/mail/taglines/mail/*http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com/> - Celebridades <http://br.rd.yahoo.com/mail/taglines/mail/*http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com/celebridades/> - Música <http://br.rd.yahoo.com/mail/taglines/mail/*http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com/m%C3%BAsica/> - Esportes <http://br.rd.yahoo.com/mail/taglines/mail/*http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com/esportes/>


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--
========================================

Justin A. Lemkul
Ph.D. Candidate
ICTAS Doctoral Scholar
Department of Biochemistry
Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, VA
jalemkul[at]vt.edu | (540) 231-9080
http://www.bevanlab.biochem.vt.edu/Pages/Personal/justin

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------------------------------------------------------
Ran Friedman
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Computational Structural Biology Group (A. Caflisch)
Institute of Biochemistry
University of Zurich
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CH-8057 Zurich, Switzerland
Tel. +41-44-6355593
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