I downloaded Jeff Covey's rendering of the Milan Pavan 2 from Mutopia this morning to give to students. The overall appearance of it is just wonderful. I can certainly mark it up a bit and use it, but it has serious errors in it that *cannot* be his fault. There are stem collisions at 9:3, 10:3, 11:1, 13:2, 14:3, and 22:3. These errors are not merely cosmetic and meaningless, as, for example, failure to divide the directions of multiple ties in some way or other would be. Any one of the cited errors should be considered completely fatal. You *must not* have two time values on a single stem. Stems that coincide are a single stem in all cases. There must be offset, and the software must absolutely provide it without prompting or configuration. (Of course multiple stems on a single head are fine. That has always been, since 1825 at least, considered ok *even with the ambiguity of a dotted head*. That last should not be and should never have been allowed, but it was. :-( ) The way the notes are aligned on the left side at 20:1 and elsewhere looks great, but to have the stem touch a semibreve as in 11:1 is a serious fault. A semibreve doesn't have a stem, at least never one with a half note on it. Also, the spacing at 15:2-3 and 23:2-3 is so bad that the second and third beats in each case give the appearance of being a single 4-note chord. At 19:1 the tenor part quarter rest is below the bass. ---------------Summary: Measures: 24 Measures ok: 15 Measures not ok: 9 ---------------- Ok does not mean without fault. There are wrong stem directions in measures 12, 13, 14, 19, 20, and 22. A very minor matter except where it caused a few of the other mistakes. I hope that I have been beating a dead dog here, and that this stuff is already fixed in the program. I would much prefer to have wasted my time rather than yours. Now to pick some nits. There is too much staff before the clef, and the distance between the clef and the F# is too great. This is purely wasted space. It looks wasteful without looking elegant, unlike indention, where I was wrong. :-) There is no 8 on the bottom of the clef. I know that guitar music has always been written at the octave, Jeff knows it, but everybody doesn't know it, and everybody shouldn't have to know it. One shouldn't have to know the instrument to read the music. Millions of people will download this stuff, eventually. Not all of them will be guitar players. Clefs should always give *absolute pitches*. It is completely unnecessary to compromise on that, and also needlessly confusing. Since you can completely avoid ambiguity in pitch, you should. If people didn't in the past, shame on them. This Pavan is from the first book of exclusively instrumental music published ever. It is transcribed from tablature and it is not in the original key. (F) There was no such thing as a repeat sign. Milan suggested that one of the pavans (I forget which, but not this one) should be played three times for best effect. That is the kind of information which would be nice to have on a *title page*. I don't consider myself to be the type of person that Mutopia was created to serve. I already knew that stuff. I cannot deny that it would usually, but not necessarily, be more sensible to refer to a title page rather than include it in the file for a single page of music, especially part of a larger work, but when the Pavans and Fantasies become single downloads, as they must, the situation will change. If the Pavans and Fantasies together should ever become one download, I doubt a single title page would provide enough space for the desirable information. Why not start getting ready now? I'm sorry if you consider binding OT. It is crucial to survival. BTW: I have a bilingual edition of the Carcassi Method in American English with the original French, probably published in 1883. The original publication was in Paris in 1825, I believe. 1883 was the year that Theodore Presser was founded in Philadelphia. It is extremely likely that they would have published the Carcassi book in their first year. It is possibly the best selling instrumental method book of all time, a sure winner. Before 1883 anyway, we in the USA wrote F# as fis and G# as gis. :-) I've decided that I should get used to it. This edition is engraved but it has some music typesetting in the introductory (mostly text) part. When engraved, the staff is open on the left, but it is always closed with typesetting. The thin metal ends of the lines would bend or break without that reinforcement. Since music was typeset with metal long before the invention of copperplate engraving, (typeset in Italy during Monteverde's time, which is why Allegro, Andante, Dal Segno, etc.) that explains the persistence of the practice of closing the end. And gives further justification for not continuing it when trying to emulate engraving. :-) I didn't much like "Hall of Shame" either. I like the idea, not the title. A bad user interface is the programmer's fault. Failure to find a solution to a notation problem is nothing like that. You are certainly right that it should be blame free. There may well be no solution to a notation problem. Also, the most illuminating examples of failure are from the best efforts of the best engravers and typesetters, not the worst. I was looking for a title that was not dull, not looking to insult people or hurt their feelings. Of course, most are safely dead, too, while most of the user interface writers are still alive... How about "Music Notation Chamber of Horrors"? -- Peace, understanding, health and happiness to all beings! U U u ^^ ` 'U u U ''`'` _-__o|oO|o-_|o_o_-_MN[-->mm@_-_--___o|o|oU_|o_o__lilypond dave N Va USA David Raleigh Arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED]