Alain, if you opened a bug report, could you provide a link to it so we can follow it there?
David c On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 11:45 AM, David Carlson <david.carlson....@gmail.com> wrote: > Alain, Adrian and David T > > I also missed the comment that Alain was purchasing and selling stock. He > goes on to state that the unrealized gains are not what he thinks they > should be, but without purchase price (cost basis) and sales details for an > example round trip security purchase and sale, it is impossible to > determine if GnuCash has been given bad data or if there is a bug. We all > know that GnuCash only tracks the value within the security account and > does not account for commissions and fees (which do not affect the 'before > expenses' gain or loss on the actual security shares) if they are entered > separately. Unrealized gain will not go to zero unless all shares have > been sold and the value of the respective security accounts have also been > reduced to zero. > > I personally think that the key is to find a way to bring each security > account to a value of zero euros (as seen in the chart of accounts > Present(Euros) and Balance columns) when the number of shares goes to zero. > I use a separate spreadsheet to help me with that. Before the last share > is sold, there will be an unrealized gain or loss based on whatever numbers > are in the data and how GnuCash has been told to interpret them. > > Also, as I mentioned in another message, it would be worthwhile to check > for hidden accounts or other residual transactions or splits from any old > typos that did not get completely corrected. > > On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 10:03 AM, Adrien Monteleone < > adrien.montele...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Apologies David, >> >> Somehow after reading over his posts several times, I still missed that. >> And seeing that now, makes my questions moot or answered. >> >> So I’m more confidant to say, “Not a bug.” >> >> The gain/loss calculation is being done on the various prices from >> whatever account he is using to buy/sell shares in. I’d suspect if he >> deletes the prices from the db, the report is still going to pull the >> relevant price(s) based on the commodity setting from the math in the >> transaction. If he bought shares at a lower price than he did previously, I >> would expect a sane response by GnuCash would be to report an unrealized >> loss. >> >> This *might* be related to what we discovered in Feb while looking at the >> Trial Balance report. >> >> Regards, >> Adrien >> >> > On Apr 5, 2018, at 6:24 AM, David T. <sunfis...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > >> > I surmise from the OP that there ARE buy/sell transactions, based on >> the comment, "I do not enter share values into GC until the day I sell >> them," which was made early in the thread. >> > >> > I agree that details are lacking, and I apologize for the >> miscommunication regarding bugs. As I don't fully understand what a True >> Accountant believes is supposed to happen in those situations, I'm at a >> loss to determine whether gnucash is getting it right or wrong. >> > >> > David T >> > >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 10:28, Adrien Monteleone >> > <adrien.montele...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > I certainly didn’t advocate filing a bug on this. I think more >> sleuthing and answers are needed. >> > >> > Yes, I understand the db gets an entry on a buy/sell transaction, but >> if you don’t have buy or sell transactions?... >> > >> > And to be clear, those aren’t ‘automatically downloaded.’ They are the >> result of the transaction math.(perhaps the OP wasn’t expecting them to >> appear, but they really have to if the account is to be kept correct and >> reports work out properly, as you noted) We’re not talking about GC >> downloading new prices each day/month/week without being told to do so. >> > >> > I’m at a loss with this thread because the OP hasn’t made clear that >> there aren’t any buy/sell transactions of anything. They claim they don’t >> use any currency other than EUR and don’t track stocks. The trading >> accounts could still be enabled, and a commodity added to the assets. And >> if this occurred on more than one date, well, then certainly, there will be >> more than one price in the db.(each one generated by GC as a result of the >> transaction) >> > >> > But the OP has been silent on these questions, so it’s probably best to >> wait till he chimes back in to continue the guessing any further. >> > >> > What we don’t know is: >> > >> > Is he seeing this unrealized gain/loss without ANY prices AT ALL in the >> db? And without ANY other currencies other than the default book currency >> in play?(EUR) And without ANY assets denominated in ANYTHING but EUR? And >> without ANY stocks, funds, et cetera? >> > >> > Until all of those answers are ‘yes’ I don’t think there’s a bug at >> all, but rather, either a transaction that is hard to find, or a user >> misunderstanding. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Adrien >> > >> > > On Apr 4, 2018, at 10:28 PM, David T. <sunfis...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> > > >> > > Adrien, >> > > >> > > Gnucash places an entry in the price db when you create a buy or sell >> transaction. This ensures that certain reports behave, I recall. >> > > >> > > As this issue has been discussed previously and at length, I would >> hesitate to file a bug until the experts weigh in on the esoteric aspects >> of unrealized gains in gnucash. Currently, those experts are putting out >> bigger fires. >> > > >> > > David >> > > >> > > >> > > On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 5:35, Adrien Monteleone >> > > <adrien.montele...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > > But the OP specifically said he doesn’t deal with stocks or any other >> investments. So there should be no such added prices. (and technically, >> those would be manual inputs via the transaction, just not via the Price >> Editor) As far as I’m aware, GnuCash doesn’t just grab prices from online >> without being told to in some fashion. >> > > >> > > Regards, >> > > Adrien >> > > >> > > > On Apr 4, 2018, at 3:55 PM, nvsoar <nvs...@charter.net> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Hmmmmm. Seems to me that a price is added to the system any time a >> stock is purchased or sold, or when a dividend is reinvested. >> > > > nvsoar >> > > > >> > > > On 04/04/18 09:32, Adrien Monteleone wrote: >> > > >> The value will usually change based on that setting. Sometimes >> ‘latest’ and ’nearest in time’ will be the same, but that depends on >> running the report ON an actual day (not FOR an actual day) that is on or >> after a price update and before the next price update. >> > > >> >> > > >> First, you say you deleted all rates updated automatically by GC >> without you noticing. (does not happen, you have to open the price editor >> and tell it to ‘get quotes’) This leaves the presumption that there are >> other prices in the db that you either entered manually or intentionally >> updated with the ‘get quotes’ button. >> > > >> >> > > >> Then you say there are NO rates in the system. >> > > >> >> > > >> Which is it? >> > > >> >> > > >> If you open the Price Database is there anything at all listed in >> the window? (this includes a Currencies tree) >> > > >> >> > > >> Do you have ANY transactions where you purchased or entered an >> opening balance for a commodity or any currency other than the default book >> currency? (EUR) >> > > >> >> > > >> If you go to File > Properties, is ‘Use Trading Accounts’ checked? >> > > >> >> > > >> Regards, >> > > >> Adrien >> > > >> >> > > >>> On Apr 4, 2018, at 11:10 AM, cag...@free.fr wrote: >> > > >>> >> > > >>> I suspect there is a bug that should be reported: >> > > >>> >> > > >>> As I do NOT manage currencies other than EUR and no traders >> accounts taking into account share values, I have deleted all exchanges >> rates that had been updated automatically by GC without my noticing. >> > > >>> BUT my Unrealized loss on a given day varies according to my >> setting the calculation mode to "average" or "nearest in time" for >> instance. It doesn's seem to make sense since there are NO exchange rates >> in my system. >> > > >>> >> > > >>> Ideas? >> > > >>> TIA >> > > >>> Alain >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> De: "sunfish62" <sunfis...@yahoo.com> >> > > >>> À: cag...@free.fr, "John Ralls" <jra...@ceridwen.us> >> > > >>> Cc: "gnucash-user" <gnucash-user@gnucash.org> >> > > >>> Envoyé: Lundi 2 Avril 2018 14:52:46 >> > > >>> Objet: Re: Unrealized loss >> > > >>> >> > > >>> Alain, >> > > >>> >> > > >>> Your new transaction is balanced, and won't affect the imbalance >> in another transaction. >> > > >>> >> > > >>> I personally find the unrealized gains issue to be exceedingly >> difficult to understand. Since you say you don't care about this, just >> ignore it. >> > > >>> >> > > >>> David T >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 17:02, cag...@free.fr >> > > >>> <cag...@free.fr> wrote: >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> De: [ mailto:cag...@free.fr | cag...@free.fr ] >> > > >>> À: "John Ralls" < [ mailto:jra...@ceridwen.us | >> jra...@ceridwen.us ] > >> > > >>> Cc: "gnucash-user" < [ mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org | >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org ] > >> > > >>> Envoyé: Lundi 2 Avril 2018 13:51:03 >> > > >>> Objet: Re: Unrealized loss >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> De: "John Ralls" < [ mailto:jra...@ceridwen.us | >> jra...@ceridwen.us ] > >> > > >>> À: [ mailto:cag...@free.fr | cag...@free.fr ] >> > > >>> Cc: "gnucash-user" < [ mailto:gnucash-user@gnucash.org | >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org ] > >> > > >>> Envoyé: Dimanche 1 Avril 2018 15:34:43 >> > > >>> Objet: Re: Unrealized loss >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> On Apr 1, 2018, at 5:13 AM, [ mailto: [ mailto:cag...@free.fr | >> cag...@free.fr ] | [ mailto:cag...@free.fr | cag...@free.fr ] ] wrote: >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> Hello. >> > > >>> >> > > >>> I have have had an "unrealized loss" showing on my balance sheet >> for years. I haven't bothered too much as the amount is extremely small. >> (€7.70). >> > > >>> >> > > >>> I had kind advice on this forum as to identify the date on which >> the loss showed up and the procedure to cancel it. I did find the date but >> stangely not the transaction. So I'm not going to keep trying to cancel the >> loss any longer. >> > > >>> >> > > >>> I read that, without actually "cancelling" the loss, it is >> possible to prevent it from showing. I know that this is not legal for a >> company, but my book keeping is fully personal so I'd like to know the >> procedure. >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> “Cancelling” isn’t really the right term. You need to record the >> loss as either expense or negative income depending on how you handle >> capital gains. There’s an explanation of how to do this in [ [ >> https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.6/C/gnucash-guide/invest-sell1.html | >> https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.6/C/gnucash-guide/invest-sell1.html ] | >> [ https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.6/C/gnucash-guide/invest-sell1.html | >> https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v2.6/C/gnucash-guide/invest-sell1.html ] ] . >> > > >>> >> > > >>> Regards, >> > > >>> John Ralls >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> I have identified the day on which the unrealized lossed first >> appeared. I have drawn a transaction report for that day (and the day >> before). There is no transaction that can remotely explain the loss. >> > > >>> I do not handle foreign currencies. Regarding shares I do not use >> trader accounts or split transactions including profits or losses. I do not >> enter share values into GC until the day I sell them. There is no way in >> the meantime GC can take into account a difference in value. >> > > >>> >> > > >>> Something might help identify where the problem comes from: I had >> another instance with an unrealized loss as big as my total yearly income. >> It went away a few weeks (or months I'm not sure) after it showed up. There >> is no way a single transaction (or even a few ) on a particular day >> triggered an unrealized loss as big as my yearly income. >> > > >>> >> > > >>> What I would like at this stage is simply set GC NOT to SHOW >> unrealized losses/gains. No legal problem as I'm only managing my personal >> familyaccounts. >> > > >>> >> > > >>> TIA for you help >> > > >>> Regards >> > > >>> Alain >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> I tried the following: >> > > >>> C an equity account "Unrealized loss" : EUR 7.70 >> > > >>> D an income account "Realized loss" : EUR 7.70 >> > > >>> The total Equity remained the same - 7.70 >> > > >>> I changed the signs and the total equity remained at - 7.70 >> > > >>> I don't get it. >> > > >>> >> > > >>> TIA >> > > >>> Alain >> > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > gnucash-user mailing list >> > > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> > > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> > > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> > > > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >> > > > ----- >> > > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> > > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > gnucash-user mailing list >> > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> > > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >> > > ----- >> > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > gnucash-user mailing list >> > gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >> > ----- >> > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> gnucash-user mailing list >> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >> ----- >> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >> > > _______________________________________________ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. ----- Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. 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