IIUC the SIPP is simply a wrapper around stock-type and cash-type investments, so, you'd handle it exactly the same as any Broker and Broker investments.
See https://www.gnucash.org/docs/v3/C/gnucash-guide/invest-setup1.html - the SIPP wrapper would be the "Brokerage Accounts" asset. You may choose to record each stock fluctuation, or (my preference) trust the SIPP statements instead. Annually you'd print a Transaction Report from SIPP account. Or you can run a cash flow report, originating from SIPP account and children. On Fri, 1 May 2020 at 10:26, Ruaraidh Sackville Hamilton < ruaraidh...@gmail.com> wrote: > Yes sure that's one perspective and I agree with it, and that's why I have > my SIPP in the same GC file as everything else. I was just noting that the > way contributions are reported (i.e. as expenses eligible for tax rebates, > not as income that is taxed) seems more in line with a > different perspective, that the net worth of a SIPP is independent from > personal net worth. Isn't a business's net worth different from personal > net worth? Isn't it possible to view it both ways? > > Ignore me. I'm a novice to GnuCash and naive in economics. I just find it > interesting, learning new concepts as part of learning GnuCash. > > On Fri, 1 May 2020 at 10:41, Christopher Lam <christopher....@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> I wouldn't classify sipp contributions as expense. You'd be incorrectly >> reducing your net worth whenever you contribute to it. >> >> On Fri, 1 May 2020, 5:23 pm Ruaraidh Sackville Hamilton, < >> ruaraidh...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Ah yes you are right! I didn't think of the case where an employer pays >>> directly into a SIPP. In that case it is clearly an income. Not in mine. >>> >>> Conceptually, it might be better thought of as a business expense. The >>> business is the SIPP and the government encourages investment in the >>> business by giving tax rebates on allowable business expenses. Payments >>> into the SIPP are reported in the tax report as expenses rather than as >>> income. And a SIPP is not like other assets: I can't sell it or trade it, >>> and there are strict rules limiting when and how much income I can take >>> from it in retirement. So maybe we should look at the SIPP as its own >>> independent entity, with income to the SIPP being expenses to our other >>> assets, just as reported in tax reports. >>> >>> But that seems a theoretical discussion, and we have a sort of pragmatic >>> solution that works (even though I have to go outside of GnuCash to >>> calculate what to put in the tax form) >>> >>> Thanks again for enlightening comments! >>> >>> On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 16:30, D. <sunfis...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> >>> > Ah, then yes it's a terminology thing. In my own case, money from my >>> > income goes directly into the SIPP as a payroll deduction, so I just >>> > transfer from income into the SIPP. It can just as easily go from an >>> asset >>> > to another asset. >>> > >>> > >>> > -------- Original Message -------- >>> > From: Ruaraidh Sackville Hamilton <ruaraidh...@gmail.com> >>> > Sent: Thu Apr 30 19:42:46 GMT+05:30 2020 >>> > To: "D." <sunfis...@yahoo.com> >>> > Cc: "D. via gnucash-user" <gnucash-user@gnucash.org> >>> > Subject: Re: [GNC] Reporting transactions >>> > >>> > Sorry David, I didn't mean to imply I prefer the second to the first >>> > option. I just thought it easier to show by editing one of your >>> versions, >>> > and happened to pick the second. I could as easily have picked the >>> first. >>> > >>> > In my reply I replaced your "Income:Me" with "Assets:my bank account". >>> The >>> > point is that, when the SIPP is in the same GC file as my other >>> assets, the >>> > transaction is from one asset (the bank account I used to pay into the >>> > SIPP) to another asset (my SIPP). It's not from an income account to >>> the >>> > SIPP, so it can't appear in a report of income. >>> > >>> > If I keep the SIPP in a separate dedicated GC file, then no problem: my >>> > contribution appears in the main GC file as an expense against my bank >>> > account and as an income in the SIPP GC file. I just wondered if there >>> was >>> > a way of keeping all assets in one file. >>> > >>> > Ruaraidh >>> > >>> > On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 14:41, D. <sunfis...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> > >>> > > ??? >>> > > >>> > > Perhaps this is a terminology thing, but aren't you just >>> re-presenting >>> > the >>> > > second option I gave originally? >>> > > >>> > > Think of it another way: there are two sources for the funding of >>> your >>> > > SIPP: your contribution, and the government's. How you handle your >>> own >>> > > contribution depends on your workflow; the government is giving you >>> > money, >>> > > so that's an income account. I offered two methods of recording that >>> > > two-step; yours is a repetition of my second method. >>> > > >>> > > I personally use the first, since the two events are inextricably >>> linked >>> > > (the second never happens without the first). >>> > > >>> > > Or am I missing something? >>> > > >>> > > David >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > -------- Original Message -------- >>> > > From: Ruaraidh Sackville Hamilton <ruaraidh...@gmail.com> >>> > > Sent: Thu Apr 30 17:20:34 GMT+05:30 2020 >>> > > To: "D." <sunfis...@yahoo.com> >>> > > Cc: Gnucash Users <gnucash-user@gnucash.org> >>> > > Subject: Re: [GNC] Reporting transactions >>> > > >>> > > That covers it if the SIPP is in a separate GC file of its own, >>> where my >>> > > contribution is an income (and an expense from my bank account in the >>> > main >>> > > GC file, which I use to fund the contribution). >>> > > >>> > > But if it's all in one GC file we have >>> > > >>> > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Contribution Assets:SIPP £100 >>> > > My contribution Assets:my bank account £100 >>> > > >>> > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Govt Contribution Assets:SIPP £25 >>> > > Government contribution Income:GovContrib £25 >>> > > >>> > > Am I wrong? >>> > > >>> > > Ruaraidh >>> > > >>> > > On Thu, 30 Apr 2020 at 12:33, D. <sunfis...@yahoo.com> wrote: >>> > > >>> > > > Set up an independent income account for the government >>> contributions: >>> > > > >>> > > > Income:GovContrib >>> > > > >>> > > > Then add either a split to your contribution for the government, >>> > > > >>> > > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Contribution Assets:SIPP £125 >>> > > > My contribution Income:Me £100 >>> > > > Government contribution Income:GovContrib £25 >>> > > > >>> > > > or a separate transaction, >>> > > > >>> > > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Contribution Assets:SIPP £100 >>> > > > My contribution Income:Me £100 >>> > > > >>> > > > 01-01-2020 SIPP Govt Contribution Assets:SIPP £25 >>> > > > Government contribution Income:GovContrib £25 >>> > > > >>> > > > That should cover it, yes? >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > -------- Original Message -------- >>> > > > From: Ruaraidh <ruaraidh...@gmail.com> >>> > > > Sent: Thu Apr 30 15:17:04 GMT+05:30 2020 >>> > > > To: gnucash-user@gnucash.org >>> > > > Subject: [GNC] Reporting transactions >>> > > > >>> > > > I have another question related to UK tax reporting obligations. >>> > > > >>> > > > In the UK we can have a type of asset called a SIPP (Self-invested >>> > > Personal >>> > > > Pension). You pay money into a SIPP with the idea of building up an >>> > > income >>> > > > for your retirement. The carrot is, you get a tax rebate. For >>> example >>> > if >>> > > > you >>> > > > pay 100 GBP into the SIPP, the government pays in another 25 GBP. >>> > > > >>> > > > For our annual tax reports, we have to report the total added to >>> the >>> > SIPP >>> > > > during the tax year: the amount we pay in personally, plus the >>> amount >>> > > that >>> > > > the government pays in, i.e. 125 GBP in the above example. >>> > > > >>> > > > This is easy to do if I keep the SIPP in a separate GC book. Then >>> all >>> > > > personal contributions and the Government's additional >>> contributions >>> > can >>> > > be >>> > > > put into the same income account. Easy. What's not so good is that >>> (a) >>> > I >>> > > no >>> > > > longer have an overview of all assets in one book and (b) to do my >>> one >>> > > tax >>> > > > report I have to do two separate GC tax reports. >>> > > > >>> > > > Is there a better solution? Either something that allows me to keep >>> > > > everything in one book, or a way that allows reports to query two >>> > books? >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > -- >>> > > > Sent from: >>> > > http://gnucash.1415818.n4.nabble.com/GnuCash-User-f1415819.html >>> > > > _______________________________________________ >>> > > > gnucash-user mailing list >>> > > > gnucash-user@gnucash.org >>> > > > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >>> > > > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >>> > > > If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >>> > > > https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >>> > > > ----- >>> > > > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >>> > > > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ >>> gnucash-user mailing list >>> gnucash-user@gnucash.org >>> To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: >>> https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user >>> If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see >>> https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. >>> ----- >>> Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. >>> You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. >>> >> _______________________________________________ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user If you are using Nabble or Gmane, please see https://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Mailing_Lists for more information. ----- Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. 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