I admit I am a bit lost as to what specific issue is being discussed here beyond the (recurring) challenge of translating double-entry accounting in simple terms, which is real but hardly a GC specific challenge.
As relating specifically to account balances (if this is what is being discussed), then I do certainly understand the challenge of trying to show balance in a single column because one way or another it requires using positive or negative signs at some point. As far as I know, that's what the 'Reversed Balance Account" under Edit - Preference - Accounts let's you tweak as a user in the context of single register and to some extend in the transaction report as well (with some problematic side effects in totals and running totals in that case). If you want accounts that TYPICALLY have a credit balance to show a credit balance as a positive number in the balance column, then the option is there. If you want income and expense accounts to show a (respectively) negative and positive balance, then the option is there. But it's purely a visual on the screen. By definition if you bring credit and debit amounts in the SAME column combining income/expense and asset/liabilities account types, then a standard has to be used for one of debit/credit to be positive and the other negative. Typically debit is positive and credit is negative, but you could do debit negative and credit positive and it's fine as well mathematically. What you CANNOT do is mix both of these standards in the overall accounting equation, that simply is impossible math. But you can certainly "cheat" and present things differently when only showing one type of account, or even accounts limited to BS or P&L. Other accounting systems I have used bypass this issue by simply never putting debit and credit amounts in the same columns, even in reports and even more so in registers. So in that case, you not only show 2 columns for the transaction amounts as GC already does, but you also show 2 columns for the account balance (debit and credit as well). Problem solved as no negative numbers are ever shown in that case. With informal labels that would look like this for a bank account for instance (the labels could be different, just giving an example). DATE DESCRIPTION DEPOSIT WITHDRAWAL AVAILABLE BALANCE OVERDRAFT DUE Just as on every transaction you can only have a positive amount in either the DEPOSIT or WITHDRAWAL column, you would also only have one positive balance amount shown in either the AVAILABLE BALANCE or OVERDRAFT DUE column. I am not saying we should do this; I am just showing that the same dual balance column concept could be implemented with informal labels. After all, informal labels are just account-context-specific labels for DEBIT and CREDIT, nothing else. On accounts such as expense and income, it is very rare to have a (respectively) credit or debit balance. So the informal headings are even harder to come up with just as they are for the main contra-column (in particular I am not a big fan of "charge" used for income debit); The words rebate and refund have dual meaning since they can be seen from the person being paid giving a refund or a rebate; or the person paying getting a refund or a rebate. So even "Rebate" being the contra-account for expense can be confusing. My personal preference would be to use refund and accept longer names, such as "Refund Received" for the contra-expense accounts and "Refund Given" for the contra-income accounts. As for how dual balance columns (if used hypothetically) would be called, that's a whole other matter. Finally some accounting packages will show you a third type of dual columns: the running debit total and running credit total. In the context of income accounts for instance, it's the running total of all refunds given and the running total of all income received (not reduced for refunds given). Hardly something we want to do with GC but I am pointing this out to show the real challenge of translating a simple yet powerful concept (debit/credit) into everyday language without going overboard. That's my take. --Vincent On Sat, Jul 1, 2023 at 8:00 AM Adrien Monteleone < adrien.montele...@lusfiber.net> wrote: > I understand your post is in the context of the importer - which is a > whole different beast, but discerning the 'normal' balance of account > types is not a mystery. It is dependent on their position in the > Accounting Equation. > > > Assets = Liabilities + Equity > > *adding in the special Equity type account of Retained Earnings yields: > > > Assets = Liabilities + Equity + Retained Earnings > > > Retained Earnings = Income - Expenses > > > thus: > > > Assets = Liabilities + Equity + Income - Expenses > > > moving terms so all are 'positive': > > > Assets + Expenses = Liabilities + Equity + Income > > > and since: > > > Debit = Credit, Left Side = Right Side > > > therefore: > > Assets & Expenses are normally (when positive) Debit balanced accounts > (left side), and Liabilities, Equity & Income are normally (when > positive) Credit balanced accounts (right side). > > Gnucash treats the equation differently internally, so by default this > is a bit different: > > Assets + Expenses - Liabilities - Equity - Income = 0 > > thus: > > By *default* in Gnucash, Liabilities, Equity & Income normally show > their Credit balances as negative numbers. (because their terms have > been moved to the opposite, or left, side of the equation in the code) > The 'Reversed Balanced Accounts' preference adjusts the *presentation* > back to the original equation per your liking. Internally, these > accounts remain negative when they have a credit balance. > > ----- > > Your below chart looks correct except the one type I noted below: > > Regards, > Adrien > > On 6/30/23 11:00 PM, flywire wrote: > > Is it CR or DB? Who knows, toss a coin: > > https://bugs.gnucash.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798964 > > > > An interesting list of accounts adapted from a comment with an `*` next > to > > the main account types: > > > > * BALANCE ACCCOUNT TYPE DEBIT CREDIT > > debit NONE Funds In Funds Out > > debit BANK Deposit Withdrawal > > debit CASH Receive Spend > > ----- > > debit CREDIT Payment Charge > credit CREDIT Payment Charge > *A Credit Card type account is a Liability and thus normally has a > Credit balance. > > ----- > > * Debit ASSET Increase Decrease > > * Credit LIABILITY Decrease Increase > > debit STOCK Buy Sell > > debit MUTUAL Buy Sell > > debit CURRENCY Buy Sell > > * Credit INCOME Charge Income > > * Debit EXPENSE Expense Rebate > > * Credit PAYABLE Payment Bill > > * Debit RECEIVABLE Invoice Payment > > credit TRADING Decrease Increase > > * Credit EQUITY Decrease Increase > > _______________________________________________ > gnucash-user mailing list > gnucash-user@gnucash.org > To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: > https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user > ----- > Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. > You can do this by using Reply-To-List or Reply-All. > _______________________________________________ gnucash-user mailing list gnucash-user@gnucash.org To update your subscription preferences or to unsubscribe: https://lists.gnucash.org/mailman/listinfo/gnucash-user ----- Please remember to CC this list on all your replies. 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