On 2012-06-20, at 7:15 AM, Wise, Alicia (ELS-OXF) wrote: > ...perhaps time to explore opportunities to work with publishers?
No, precisely the opposite, I think: It's time for institutions to realize that institutional Green OA self-archiving policy is (and always has been) exclusively their own business, and not publishers' (who have a rather different business...) Negotiate subscription prices with publishers. But do not even discuss institutional OA policy with publishers. (And advise institutional researchers to ignore incoherent clauses in their copyright agreements: Anything of the form "P but not-P" -- e.g. "you retain the right to self-archive, but not if you are required to exercise the right to self-archive" -- implies anything at all, as well as the opposite of anything at all. Don't give it another thought: just self-archive. And institutions should set policy -- mandate immediate deposit, specify maximum allowable OA-embargo-length, the shorter the better, and keep publisher mumbo-jumbo out of the loop altogether. Ditto for funders, but, to avoid gratuitous extra problems as a 3rd-party site, stipulate institutional rather than institution-external deposit.) Stevan Harnad > Dr Alicia Wise > Director of Universal Access > Elsevier I The Boulevard I Langford Lane I Kidlington I Oxford I OX5 1GB > M: +44 (0) 7823 536 826 I E: a.w...@elsevier.com > Twitter: @wisealic > > > From: goal-boun...@eprints.org [mailto:goal-boun...@eprints.org] On Behalf Of > David Prosser > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 11:31 AM > To: Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci) > Subject: [GOAL] Re: Why should publishers agree to Green OA? > > Laurent makes an important point. OA policies are between the funders or > institutions and the researchers. These agreements come before any agreement > regarding copyright assignment between authors and publishers. So, it is the > job of publishers to decide if they are willing to live with the deposit > agreement between the funder/institution and researchers, not the job of > funders and institutions to limit their policies to match the needs of > publishers. > > > David > > > On 20 Jun 2012, at 11:04, Laurent Romary wrote: > > > Not that I know. I think the French Research Performing Organizations are not > planning to put negotiation with editors as a premise to defining their own > OA policy. > Laurent > > > Le 20 juin 2012 à 11:45, Wise, Alicia (ELS-OXF) a écrit : > > > Hi Laurent, > > Institutions already do have agreements with publishers via their libraries > and/or library consortia.. This is certainly the case for INRIA. > > With kind wishes, > > Alicia > > From: goal-boun...@eprints.org [mailto:goal-boun...@eprints.org] On Behalf Of > Laurent Romary > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 9:11 AM > To: Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci) > Subject: [GOAL] Re: Why should publishers agree to Green OA? > > This definitely makes no sense. Institutions are not going to start > negotiating agreements with all publishers one by one. Does Elsevier have so > much man power left to start negotiating with all institutions one by one as > well. The corresponding budget could then probably used to reduce > subscriptions prices ;-) > Laurent > > Le 20 juin 2012 à 09:53, Wise, Alicia (ELS-OXF) a écrit : > > > > Hi all, > > Just a quick point of clarification…. Elsevier doesn’t forbid posting if > there is a mandate. We ask for an agreement with the institution that has > the mandate, and there is no cost for these agreements. The purpose of these > agreements is to work out a win-win solution to find a way for the underlying > journals in which academics choose to publish to be sustainable even if there > are high posting rates. > > With kind wishes, > > Alicia > > Dr Alicia Wise > Director of Universal Access > Elsevier I The Boulevard I Langford Lane I Kidlington I Oxford I OX5 1GB > M: +44 (0) 7823 536 826 I E: a.w...@elsevier.com > Twitter: @wisealic > > > > From: goal-boun...@eprints.org [mailto:goal-boun...@eprints.org] On Behalf Of > Peter Murray-Rust > Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2012 7:23 PM > To: Global Open Access List (Successor of AmSci) > Subject: [GOAL] Why should publishers agree to Green OA? > > > I have some simple questions about Green OA. I don't know the answers. > > * is there any *contractual* relationship between a Green-publisher and any > legal body? Or is Green simply a permission granted unilaterally by > publishers when they feel like it, and withdrawable when they don't. > * if Green starts impacting on publishers' revenues (and I understand this is > part of the Green strategy - when we have 100% Green then publishers will > have to change) what stops them simply withdrawing the permission? Or > rationing it? Or any other anti-Green measure > * Do publishers receive any funding from anywhere for allowing Green? Green > is extra work for them - why should they increase the amount they do? > * Is there any body which regularly "negotiates" with publishers such as ACS, > who categorically forbid Green for now and for ever. > > Various publishers seem to indicate that they will allow Green as long as > it's a relatively small percentage. But, as Stevan has noted, if your > institution mandates Green, then Elsevier forbids it. So I cannot see why, if > Green were to reach - say - 50%, the publishers wouldn't simply ration it and > prevent 100%. > > > -- > Peter Murray-Rust > Reader in Molecular Informatics > Unilever Centre, Dep. Of Chemistry > University of Cambridge > CB2 1EW, UK > +44-1223-763069 > Elsevier Limited. Registered Office: The Boulevard, Langford Lane, > Kidlington, Oxford, OX5 1GB, United Kingdom, Registration No. 1982084 > (England and Wales). > > _______________________________________________ > GOAL mailing list > GOAL@eprints.org > http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal > > Laurent Romary > INRIA & HUB-IDSL > laurent.rom...@inria.fr > > > > Elsevier Limited. Registered Office: The Boulevard, Langford Lane, > Kidlington, Oxford, OX5 1GB, United Kingdom, Registration No. 1982084 > (England and Wales). > > _______________________________________________ > GOAL mailing list > GOAL@eprints.org > http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal > > Laurent Romary > INRIA & HUB-IDSL > laurent.rom...@inria.fr > > > > <ATT00001..txt> > > Elsevier Limited. Registered Office: The Boulevard, Langford Lane, > Kidlington, Oxford, OX5 1GB, United Kingdom, Registration No. 1982084 > (England and Wales). > > _______________________________________________ > GOAL mailing list > GOAL@eprints.org > http://mailman.ecs.soton.ac.uk/mailman/listinfo/goal
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