Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Again, from a non-poster: this is an excellent list: well-moderated, useful information, wonderful people who will respond offline if a person needs a little extra discussion and does not want to belabor the list. Please stop all this and get back to real, on-topic discussions. Stevan Harnad should continue to moderate the list.
Connie McEowen, MLS US Army Research Laboratory AMSRD-ARL-CI-OK-TP voice: 410-278-3394 fax: 410-278-4178 -----Original Message----- From: American Scientist Open Access Forum [mailto:american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org] On Behalf Of Tony Hey Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:40 AM To: american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org Subject: Re: Call for a vote of nonconfidence in the moderator of the AmSci Forum I absolutely agree with Michael - the list would die without Stevan Tony -----Original Message----- From: American Scientist Open Access Forum [mailto:american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org] On Behalf Of Michael Eisen Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 7:26 AM To: american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org Subject: Re: Call for a vote of nonconfidence in the moderator of the AmSci Forum I disagree with Stevan often. He can be infuriating. He has a tendency to bloviate. Nonetheless - he has been a FANTASTIC moderator of this list. I have sent off many posts that have criticized Stevan directly, and he has never failed to send them to the group. I can think of no other list that has not just lasted for 10 years, but kept up a high level of discourse and relevance. Stevan has my complete confidence. The list would die without him. On Oct 7, 2008, at 5:37 AM, Stevan Harnad wrote: > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 3:37 AM, c.oppenh...@lboro.ac.uk > <c.oppenh...@lboro.ac.uk> wrote: > >> I totally support Jean-Claude's view. > > I can only repeat what I said before: > > (1) I am happy to put an end to my 10-year moderatorship of the > American Scientist Open Access Forum and hand it over to someone else > who is willing to do it, but only if it is requested by a plurality of > the membership, not if it is merely requested by a few dissatisfied > members. > > (2) The moderator's role is to filter postings, approving the relevant > ones, and rejecting the off-topic or ad-hominem ones. > > (3) Apart from that, the moderator has no special status or authority > (other than what may accrue from the substance of his postings), and > may post *exactly* as any other poster may post, including the posting > of quotes, comments, critiques, elaborations, rebuttals *and > summaries*. > > By my count, there have not been many votes one way or the other, but > of the few votes there have been, more seem to be expressing > confidence in my moderatorship than those that are calling for me to > be replaced. > > I have also been accused of of censorship, by both Jean-Claude and > Sally, the charge being subsequently rescinded. If there are doubts > about whether I can be trusted to post or tally the votes -- or, more > important, if we are to spare the Forum the bandwidth of votes > appearing instead of OA substance -- I am also quite happy to direct > the votes to be sent to a trusted 3rd party for tallying, if that is > the wish of the Forum. > > Stevan Harnad > >> >> Charles >> >> >> Professor Charles Oppenheim >> Head >> Department of Information Science >> Loughborough University >> Loughborough >> Leics LE11 3TU >> >> Tel 01509-223065 >> Fax 01509 223053 >> e mail c.oppenh...@lboro.ac.uk >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: American Scientist Open Access Forum >> [mailto:AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS- >> fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org] On >> Behalf Of Jean-Claude Guédon >> Sent: 06 October 2008 19:00 >> To: american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org >> Subject: Re: American Scientist Open Access Forum settings >> >> What I note is that my messages sometimes appear back very late and I >> wonder why. It is this detail which caused my recent angry reaction. >> >> While we are on technical matters, I would appreciate two things from >> this >> moderator/actor: >> >> 1. That he should refrain from ever summarizing somebody's words. >> We are all >> versed enough in the art of reading to be able to survive without >> this doubtful form of help. Besides, list moderators are not mentors >> or paternal figures. When the summary ends up distorting the original >> message, it becomes reprehensible; >> >> 2. Since the moderator also intervenes as member in this list, he >> should make clear which of his interventions are moderating >> interventions and which ones are participations in discussions. In >> the latter case, summaries should be avoided. >> >> I realize that Peter Suber manages a blog and not a list, but I >> really like the way in which he carefully delineates the pieces of >> news he wants to convey, and how he announces his own comments. This >> is a very good model to follow. I would also add that Peter Suber >> refrains from using judgements and terms that occasionally raise the >> ire of readers such as me. When I read a sentence such as "Many >> silly, mindless things have been standing in the way of the optimal >> and inevitable" (Sept 28), I ask myself if the silly, and mindless >> characterizations belong to this context. I also wonder whether the >> "optimal and inevitable" are objective, neutral terms. On Sept. >> 30th, in >> answering to me, Stevan made free to add: "What on earth does this >> mean?". >> Was that useful? In short, Stevan acts as if there was one truth, one >> defender of this truth (himself). The list is "his" list and, on it, >> he can berate people at will (What on earth does this mean?). And >> then if you resist and respond with a few equivalents to "What on >> earth... >> etc.", then >> you are accused of flaming, being vituperative, or whatever. >> >> I wonder how the same individual, at will and arbitrarily, can assume >> the trappings of a moderator or a debate without even making sure >> that people know which role is at work. It troubles me and, I assume, >> it should trouble many people. >> >> This said, Stevan has also done excellent work in setting up this >> list and maintaining it. This too should be recognized openly and >> loudly. >> But there >> is room for improvement. >> >> Jean-Claude Guédon >> >> PS I will not come back on this point. I leave the floor to Stevan or >> any other person willing to defend his present position as both actor >> and moderator. >> >> Le lundi 06 octobre 2008 à 13:23 -0400, Stevan Harnad a écrit : >> >> Whether you do or do not receive copies of your own postings depends >> on the setting you chose when you signed onto the American Scientist >> Open Access Forum. I have checked Leslie's, Sally's and Jean-Claude's >> settings. I note that both Leslie's and Sally's were set to "No >> acknowledgements [NOACK NOREPRO]" -- the listserv's default option. I >> have now changed them both to "Receive copy of own postings [NOACK >> REPRO]". Jean-Claude's setting was already "Receive copy of own >> postings [NOACK REPRO]". >> >> If you are not receiving copies of your own postings, you can modify >> your settings at >> http://listserver.sigmaxi.org/sc/wa.exe?SUBED1=american-scientist-ope >> n-access-forum&A=1 >> >> Stevan Harnad >> Moderator >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2008 11:29:09 -0400 (EDT) >> Subject: RE: Jean-Claude >> =?iso-8859-1?Q?Gu=E9don_is_wrong=2C_and_so_is_Zinath_Rehana?= >> From: "Leslie Chan" <c...@utsc.utoronto.ca> >> To: "American Scientist Open Access Forum" >> <american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org> >> >> This has been a source of confusion for me in the past. It appears >> that the listserv software is setup in such a way that the senders do >> not receive a copy of his or her own postings. Is this the case, >> Stevan, and can this be changed to avoid future confusion? >> >> Leslie >> >>> Apologies - I have no idea why my own original posting on the matter >>> di= >> d >>> not >>> appear on my own computer >>> >>> Sally >>> >>> >>> Sally Morris >>> Consultant, Morris Associates (Publishing Consultancy) South House, >>> The Street Clapham, Worthing, West Sussex BN13 3UU, UK >>> Tel: +44(0)1903 871286 >>> Fax: +44(0)8701 202806 >>> Email: sa...@morris-assocs.demon.co.uk -----Original Message----- >>> From: American Scientist Open Access Forum >>> [mailto:AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS- >>> fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org] On >>> Behalf Of Stevan Harnad >>> Sent: 06 October 2008 15:08 >>> To: american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org >>> Subject: Re: Jean-Claude Gu=E9don is wrong, and so is Zinath Rehana >>> >>> On 10/6/08, Sally Morris (Morris Associates) >>> <sa...@morris-assocs.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>>> List readers will have seen the positive comments on Stevan's >>>> moderati= >> on >>> of >>>> the list >>>> >>>> I am worried, however, about whether negative comments are being >>>> censored. >>>> Mine was >>> >>> May I suggest that before resorting to accusations of censorship, as >>> Jean-Claude Guedon did, you consult the American Scientist Open >>> Access Forum's archive >>> http://amsci-forum.amsci.org/archives/American-Scientist-Open-Access >>> -Fo= >> rum.h >>> tml >>> where you will see, as Jean-Claude did, that all your postings have >>> appeared. Nothing has been rejected except another inappropriate >>> posting by Zinath Rehana. >>> >>> Please distinguish the fact that I am often critical of your >>> postings in my postings (as you often are of mine) from the question >>> of whether or not they appear. They all appear, and when I do a >>> critique, just as when you do a critique, I am merely a poster to >>> the Forum, like anyone else. >>> >>> I will not, however, approve further postings accusing me of >>> censorship from posters who have simply not bothered to check (or >>> have not noticed) that their postings have appeared. This entire >>> "censorship" thread has already cost the Forum a number of long-term >>> members who have quit the list because they do not have the time for >>> these off-topic exchanges. If you wish to inquire about a posting, >>> send me an email. The Forum's bandwidth is not intended for this >>> sort of thing. >>> >>> Stevan Harnad >>> >>>> Sally Morris >>>> Consultant, Morris Associates (Publishing Consultancy) South House, >>>> The Street Clapham, Worthing, West Sussex BN13 3UU, UK >>>> Tel: +44(0)1903 871286 >>>> Fax: +44(0)8701 202806 >>>> >>>> Email: sa...@morris-assocs.demon.co.uk >>>> >>>> _____ >>>> >>>> From: American Scientist Open Access Forum >>>> [mailto:AMERICAN-SCIENTIST-OPEN-ACCESS- >>>> fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org] O= >> n >>>> Behalf Of Subbiah Arunachalam >>>> Sent: 06 October 2008 04:47 >>>> To: american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org >>>> Subject: Re: Jean-Claude Gu=E9don is wrong, and so is Zinath Rehana >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I would say the same thing as Alma Swan and Barbara Kirsop, but >>>> being = >> a >>>> native speakers of English, they have said it far more effectively >>>> tha= >> n >>>> I >>>> could. >>>> >>>> Stevan, you are doing a great job. Do not get distracted from your >>>> pat= >> h >>>> because of a few detractors. Your postings are very educative and >>>> we i= >> n >>> the >>>> developing world are greatly indebted to you for your tireless >>>> efforts to democratise knowledge and open up the flow of >>>> information. >>>> >>>> Arun >>>> [Subbiah Arunachalam] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ---- >>>> From: Ept <e...@biostrat.demon.co.uk> >>>> To: american-scientist-open-access-fo...@listserver.sigmaxi.org >>>> Sent: Friday, 3 October, 2008 18:17:30 >>>> Subject: Re: Jean-Claude Gu=E9don is wrong, and so is Zinath Rehana >>>> >>>> Surely all readers of this List will be grateful to the moderator >>>> for sparing us this objectionable posting and I subscribe >>>> absolutely to th= >> e >>>> sentiments so well expressed by Alma Swan. The role of a Moderator >>>> is = >> no >>>> easy path to follow and surely leads to turbulence within this >>>> highly >>> vocal >>>> and dedicated community, each with their different backgrounds and >>>> own professional agendas. But as a person working in >>>> 'development', I for one am grateful to Stevan for his frequent >>>> reiteration of the basic points= >> , >>>> as >>> I >>>> am sure are newcomers to the List. As a prime mover in the >>>> evolutionar= >> y >>>> process towards free access to essential research, his tireless >>>> effort= >> s >>> are >>>> well appreciated by the information-starved world. >>>> >>>> Barbara Kirsop >>>> >>>> Electronic Publishing Trust for Development >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> Jean-Claude Guédon >> Université de Montréal Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE [ Part 2, Application/X-PKCS7-SIGNATURE 6.4KB. ] [ Unable to print this part. ]
