goanet-digest Monday, April 22 2002 Volume 01 : Number 3869
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In this issue:
[Goanet] Alishka - an Update
Re: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
[Goanet] News Snippets 22 April + Feedback required
Re: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:51:28 +0530
From: Ashley Delaney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Goanet] Alishka - an Update
We are very happy to inform you that the response to the appeal for Alishka
Fernandes was most generous. The two banks holding the donations, will be
giving us the total amounts collected very shortly. As soon as this
information is to hand, we will include this in our next update.
In March when Alishka was taken to the Madras Mission Hospital in Chennai
for her annual check up her Haemoglobin test was 20.20 (normal desired is
11.00 to 15.00). Her PCV test showed a reading of 62.00 (normal desired is
38.00 to 44.00). In the light of these results, Doctors therefore advised
her parents that an operation was vital in April and arrangements were
therefore made for her to be admitted on the 13th for a Cardiac
Catheterisation to be carried out on the 15th, followed by an Open Heart
Surgery on the 18th April.
We are now overjoyed to inform you that the results of the Catheterisation
showed an unbelievable improvement of the Haemoglobin and PCV. The
Haemoglobin test was now 15.8 gms% and the PCV was 48%. In the
circumstances, the hospital advised that it was not necessary for the Open
Heart Surgery to be done this year, but recommended it should be postponed
to next year, at which time it was also hoped that she would gain another 3
kgs in weight, so that she would be more medically fit, to cope with such a
major operation.
Therefore, it is now proposed that the funds collected will be put in a
Trust for her and will be monitored by a Committee comprising of the
following persons who have been instrumental in raising these funds :-
1) Mr. Sangamkar, Manager, Bank of India, Saligao
2) Rev. Fr. F. Ataide, Parish Priest, Mae de Deus Church, Saligao
3) Sr. Lily Joseph, Headmistress,Lourdes Convent, Saligao
4) Mr. Ashley Delaney, (they had to include me did they??? :-))
5) Mrs. Josephine Carvalho-Saligao - Appeal Organiser
6) Mr. Alex Fernandes - Alishka's father.
We would like to thank everybody for their overwhelming support of prayers
and donations and we will keep you informed of Alishka's progress from time
to time.
I would request some kind people to forward this message to other lists on
which this was publicised.
Regards
Ash
=================================================================
Ashley Delaney (Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are
right.)
Res: Abreovaddo, Saligao, Bardez Goa. India. 403511
Ph.(R) 0091-0832-409580 Mobile: 9823014976
MSN MESSENGER: delaneyashley , Yahoo ID: ashleywiz
Instant mail!!!! [EMAIL PROTECTED]
=================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:51:24 +0100
From: "Paulo Colaco Dias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
Hi Eddie,
What language development are you talking about ?
Konkani or Portuguese ?
If Konkani, is there a new Konkani dictionary with the inclusion of these
words ?
The truth is our catholic Konkani is invaded by Portuguese and English
words. Catholics in Goa talk a kind of Konkani which is not pure Konkani
but includes lots of Portuguese and English words all mixed up.
One needs to understand some of these words are not Konkani words.
Our Konkani of today includes loads of English and Portuguese words but it
appears that our Goans know very well the correct English spellings but
definitely fail to spell correctly the Portuguese words. It is perhaps
natural since they are nowadays more in contact with the English language.
Hardly anybody speaks Portuguese anymore.
Of course languages develop but in this particular case, I am of the opinion
these are
corruptions of the original words and not new words introduced in Konkani.
It is true that malcorada is commonly known in Goa as "mankurad".
In the same way, the Afonso or Afonsa mango is sometimes known as "Aphus" or
"Hapus" (corruptions of Afonso) and internationally by "Alphonso". "Pairi"
is also a corruption of Pires mango.
"vistid", "sucegad", "jurament", "sorpatel" or "sarpotel", "vindalo" or
"vindaloo", etc., are all corruptions of Portuguese words. Or are you going
to tell me these are new Konkani words ?
I don't think so.
And we could go on and on about the corrupted Portuguese words in our spoken
and written Konkani of today.
I say there is lack of detail in the sense that nobody actually cares about
looking for the correct spelling or meaning.
That is why we sometimes read in Goa: "Rua Abade Faria Road" or "Hospicio
Hospital", etc.
Nobody actually cares anymore if it makes sense or not.
This is what I mean when I refer to the current lack of detail in Goa.
It is good for a laugh ! Sadly.
Best,
Paulo.
PS: I agree with you about the Afonso Mangoes. But some authors actually
consider the Malcoradas one of the best of India. As you must know most of
these Goan mangoes were developed by the Portuguese through mixtures and a a
especial process of crossing different types of mangoes (known in Portuguese
as "Processo de garfagem da manga") to develop new types. The malcorada and
the Afonso are two of these which then were sent to all other Portuguese
colonies from Brazil to Macau. You can still find malcoradas in Brazil that
were brought from Goa in XVII century.
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Eddie Fernandes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 4:52 PM
Subject: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
>
> Paulo has a point but language, just like fashion, cuisine, customs,
> behaviour, Windows etc. are part of an evolutionary process and develop.
>
> So we have:
>
> Sunila: Mankurado
> >crap compared to the Goan Mankurado. Anyone want to debate that ???
> *After all she was quoting from the Times of India article which read:
> >This year, the Mankurado mango is far beyond the reach.
>
> Gilbert: Malcurada
> >malcurada, which is a corruption of the portuguese "malcorada".
>
> Paulo: Malcurada
> >Hi Gilbert, you're absolutely right about the corruption of "malcurada".
"Mankurado" is absurd!
>
> Fred Noronha: Mankurad
> > Mankurad originally called Malcorado by the Portuguese, meaning 'poor
coloured'.
> See: The Week May 17 1998
> http://www.the-week.com/98may17/biz2.htm
> Fred also wrote:
> > For Nandkumar M. Kamat, a microbiologist, mangoes are an obsession.
>
> Joel D'Souza agrees with Gilbert: Malcurada
> the succulent king of fruits--malcurada mango.see
> www.goacom.com/goanow/2000/may/edwords.html
> delicious malcurada. see
> www.goacom.com/goanow/99/may/editorial.html
>
> However, the commonly used term seems to be Mankurad. Two scientific
> articles:
> Cardozo Mankurad - A Breakthrough In Mango Selection
> www.actahort.org/books/455/455_31.htm
> Variation In Physico-Chemical And Morphogenetic Characters Of Some Mango
> Varieties Of Goa.
> www.actahort.org/books/509/509_25.htm
>
> Just to be different, The Herald had Mancurad on 12 Apr 2002 at
> www.oherald.com/Archives/fri_12apr.htm
> .. And rava fried prawns are on the prime minister Atal Behari Vajpayee's
> wish-list,during his three day stay in Goa, with mancurad mangoes
>
> However, I think that the Goa mangoes are over-rated. If they are that
> good, how is it that they are not cultivated in the rest of India? Why
are
> they not exported?
>
> I far prefer the alphonso or is it the alphonse?
>
> Eddie Fernandes
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 23:59:53 GMT
From: Eddie Fernandes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Goanet] News Snippets 22 April + Feedback required
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===========================
Govt proposing to insist on HIV-free certificates from foreigners.
Hindusatan Times. http://www.hindustantimes.com/nonfram/210402/dlnat29.asp
Indian hacker turns cyber cop. BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_1934000/1934874.stm
The Information Technology Association has asked New Zealand immigration
officials in India to check out a surge in Indian job applicants
approaching New Zealand IT recruitment agencies.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/inl/index/0,1008,1174186a1896,FF.html
Oman Times 22 Apr. Sixteen teams will vie for honours in the Curtorim
Gymkhana Cup Football Tournament… The draw for the tournament was held in
the presence of chief guest Joaquim Carvalho, former Indian hockey star…
http://www.timesofoman.com/newsdetails.asp?newsid=2426
Oman Times 22 Apr. Two presentations on immigration to Canada.
http://www.timesofoman.com/newsdetails.asp?newsid=2441
Parents in India grapple with loneliness after children settle abroad
Channel NewsAsia - AsiaPacific
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/southasia/view/5872/1/.html
India is proving to be an attractive destination for the Gulf tourists,
says a top Indian government official. Gulf holiday-makers like the casual
and informal atmosphere in India, said Dubai-based India Tourism regional
director Gour Kanjilal. Gulf News.
http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Articles.asp?Article=21153&Sn=BNEW
Vatican finally confronts abuse covered up by its cardinals. Independent
(UK)
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/politics/story.jsp?story=286602
Kerala plans pension for NRIs, insurance for returnees. Times of India.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow.asp?art_Id=7199247
Liverpool Daily Post 22 April. Indian nurses on way to solve hospital
crisis
http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/page.cfm?object
id=11808339&method=full&siteid=50061
===============
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 00:21:00 GMT
From: Eddie Fernandes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
Hi Paulo,
This is fascinating! Pity we did not discuss the subject when we spoke at
length at the weekend!
What I meant to convey is that all languages adapt and evolve. Though the
Portuguese called the variety Malcurada, there is nothing wrong in the
use of Konkani variant of Mankurad.
Are you suggesting that the Americans are dishonouring the English language
by the use of the word honor?
The two example you quote, "Rua Abade Faria Road" and "Hospicio Hospital"
are both semantically wrong, rather like asking someone for their “ PIN
number.”
The other examples you quote of “corrupted” Portuguese words in Konkani.
But there probably are a greater number of “corrupted” Sanskrit and Hindi
words in the Portuguese language – caril for curry, cha for tea etc.
Coming back to the mango: According to Hobson-Jobson (1886), the origin of
the word is mangay and is Tamil. The Portuguese “corrupted” the word to
manga. Hobson-Jobson has references to the fruit in manuscripts going back
to 1328 (go to http://www.bibliomania.com/2/3/260/frameset.html and search
for mango). In 1563 Garcia de Orta wrote that the best varieties of the
fruit were to be found in Gujarat and Ormuz. It was after this that the
Jesuits introduced better varieties through grafting.
Besides Hobson-Jobson, there are two books you will find particularly
useful, both by S.R. Dalgado: 1. Influencia do Vocabulario Portugues em
Linguas Asiaticas, 1913. 2. Glossario Luso-Asiatico. 2 vols. 1921. Both
have extensive references to the mango.
Regards,
Eddie Fernandes
==========================
From: "Paulo Colaco Dias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
> Hi Eddie,
>
> What language development are you talking about ?
> Konkani or Portuguese ?
> If Konkani, is there a new Konkani dictionary with the inclusion of these
> words ?
>
> The truth is our catholic Konkani is invaded by Portuguese and English
> words. Catholics in Goa talk a kind of Konkani which is not pure Konkani
> but includes lots of Portuguese and English words all mixed up.
>
> One needs to understand some of these words are not Konkani words.
>
> Our Konkani of today includes loads of English and Portuguese words but it
> appears that our Goans know very well the correct English spellings but
> definitely fail to spell correctly the Portuguese words. It is perhaps
> natural since they are nowadays more in contact with the English language.
> Hardly anybody speaks Portuguese anymore.
>
> Of course languages develop but in this particular case, I am of the
opinion
> these are
> corruptions of the original words and not new words introduced in Konkani.
>
> It is true that malcorada is commonly known in Goa as "mankurad".
> In the same way, the Afonso or Afonsa mango is sometimes known as "Aphus"
or
> "Hapus" (corruptions of Afonso) and internationally by "Alphonso". "Pairi"
> is also a corruption of Pires mango.
>
> "vistid", "sucegad", "jurament", "sorpatel" or "sarpotel", "vindalo" or
> "vindaloo", etc., are all corruptions of Portuguese words. Or are you
going
> to tell me these are new Konkani words ?
> I don't think so.
> And we could go on and on about the corrupted Portuguese words in our
spoken
> and written Konkani of today.
>
> I say there is lack of detail in the sense that nobody actually cares
about
> looking for the correct spelling or meaning.
> That is why we sometimes read in Goa: "Rua Abade Faria Road" or "Hospicio
> Hospital", etc.
>
> Nobody actually cares anymore if it makes sense or not.
> This is what I mean when I refer to the current lack of detail in Goa.
>
> It is good for a laugh ! Sadly.
>
> Best,
> Paulo.
------------------------------
End of goanet-digest V1 #3869
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