goanet-digest Wednesday, April 24 2002 Volume 01 : Number 3877
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In this issue:
Re: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
Re: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
Re: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
[Goanet] The value of bush medicine
Re: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
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Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:50:05 +0000
From: "Paulo Colaco Dias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
Hi Boogie,
Firstly, I don't think Goa is bilingual. And if it was, I am sure Portuguese
would not be the other language, would it ?
But then, maybe we just have to wait until Eddie writes back claiming "Rua"
or "Avenida" are commonly used by Konkani speakers and therefore are now
Konkani words.
Secondly, I think the most appropriated thing to do in a bilingual city
would be to put both names one after the other like:
Queen Elizabeth Drive
Promenade Queen Elizabeth
But I guess someone would then argue why is English first and French after
and so on. So, I guess Canadians have chosen the easiest solution ... It is
funny though ...
Regards,
Paulo.
>From: "Joseph Viegas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
>Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:27:04 -0400
>
>Paulo,
>In a bilingual city like Ottawa, the street names are generally
>marked in both official languages. Usually the English descriptor
>(Street, Avenue) is after the name, while the French one is before
>the name. For example:
>Hunt Club Road is displayed as Chemin Hunt Club Road
>Wellington Street displayed as Rue Wellington Street
>Queen Elizabeth Drive as Promenade Queen Elizabeth Drive
>
>Could the Panjim Municipality have the same idea?
>
>Boogie
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:51:24 +0100
>From: "Paulo Colaco Dias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
>
>Hi Eddie,
>.....
>
>I say there is lack of detail in the sense that nobody actually cares
>about
>looking for the correct spelling or meaning.
>That is why we sometimes read in Goa: "Rua Abade Faria Road" or
>"Hospicio
>Hospital", etc.
>
>Nobody actually cares anymore if it makes sense or not.
>This is what I mean when I refer to the current lack of detail in Goa.
>
>It is good for a laugh ! Sadly.
>
>Best,
>Paulo.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:08:56 +0100
From: "Jorge/Livia de Abreu Noronha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
"Joseph Viegas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote on
Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:27 PM
Subject: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
> Paulo,
> In a bilingual city like Ottawa, the street names are generally
> marked in both official languages. Usually the English descriptor
> (Street, Avenue) is after the name, while the French one is before
> the name. For example:
> Hunt Club Road is displayed as Chemin Hunt Club Road
> Wellington Street displayed as Rue Wellington Street
> Queen Elizabeth Drive as Promenade Queen Elizabeth Drive
>
> Could the Panjim Municipality have the same idea?
>
> Boogie
>
Formerly, at the entrance of the city of Mapusa (coming either from Panjim
or from Parra) there was an avenue called "Avenida Manuel Antonio de Sousa".
After the takeover of Goa by India the bust of M.A. de Sousa was replaced by
that of Mahatma Gandhi and the Mahatma's name was given to the avenue. The
nameplates (one at each end of the avenue) was bilingual, but in three
lines, thus:
Avenida
Mahatma Gandhi
Avenue
so that one could say it either way: "Avenida Mahatma Gandhi" or "Mahatma
Gandhi Avenue". I think this three-line nameplate (maybe even in three
different colours) might be an idea worth being considered by the municipal
councils of Goan cities and towns.
As regards what Paulo wrote earlier, worse than "Rua Abade Faria Road" is
the nameplate near the Holy Spirit Church of Margao: "Largo Padre Jose Vaz
Road". Note the discrepancy between "Largo" and "Road".
Jorge
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:32:43 +0000
From: "Paulo Colaco Dias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
Hi Eddie,
I too smell a trap in your last e-mail :-)).
1. If you read the first e-mail from Gilbert, he starts this thread by
mentioning that "malcurad" or "malcurada" are corruptions of the original
Portuguese malcorada name. So, obviously you will not find "malcurad" in a
Portuguese dictionary. The task you ask me is also impossible and you know
it very well beforehand.
2. As our Fred Noronha says and very well, malcorada in Portuguese means
poor colour - mal corada. And that is exactly what the developer/creator of
Malcorada Mangoes had in mind when he/she named that tree Malcorada
(according to Eng. Agr. Fernando do Rego - Fontainhas -Goa - who has written
an excellent and extensive study about Goan Mangoes and also according to
other authors who have written about Goan mangoes). There are also many
poems written in Portuguese about Goan Mangoes where you will find
"malcorada" name. Malcorada Mango was first developed in Goa and sent to the
other colonies from Brazil to Macau.
3. I always agreed it is today commonly known as "mankurad". But it does
lose the meaning of the word or does mankurad mean "poor colour" in Konkani?
I am not only referring to the origin of the word but also to the meaning of
it.
4. Apart from "mankurad", my previous posts also mention other
words/examples, which you chose to ignore. Don't you agree that our Goans
have a tendency to remove the last vowel from words? This ultimately
contributes for the corruption of the originals. "Vestid" as opposed to
vestido, "jurament" as opposed to juramento, etc
Even for some names: Fernand as opposed to Fernando, Francisc as opposed to
Francisco, etc.
5. Catholics are a minority of Konkani speakers from all Konkan region and
other parts of India. The Konkani spoken by catholic Goans is indeed
different and strongly influenced by other languages. This is now changing
with children learning true Konkani (hopefully) from early ages at school,
which I believe is good.
Does a Hindu Konkani speaker know what "vestid" means ? or "cozinha" or
"jurament" or "sucegad"? I doubt it ! Maybe some of them will know through
past exposure to Portuguese language but majority from Konkan region will
probably not know.
But these are some of the words our Goan catholics use and often with the
wrong spellings. Do you say these are now Konkani words?
6. Konkani is not originally in roman script and therefore when one writes
it in Roman script one can use different spellings. It is the sound that
counts ... Fine. The same happens with Arabic language when written in roman
script (very rarely happens except for Arabic names).
But foreign words, which are not Konkani, should have their spellings
preserved. I note that Goans know the English spellings well but ignore the
correct Portuguese spellings mostly because of lack of detail and concern in
writing it with the correct spelling. This is my opinion and the message I
wanted to transmit.
7. This is also my last post on this subject. My friend, you are free to
disagree and add these foreign words to your own Roman Script Konkani
dictionary if you wish.
Best regards to you and Lira,
Paulo Colaco Dias
>From: "Eddie Fernandes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Paulo Colaco Dias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
>Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:48:06 +0100
>
>Hi Paulo,
>
>Thanks for the response. I smell a trap. Do you want me to challenge you
>to find the word "malcurad" in a Portuguese dictionary? Well, I am not
>going to walk into that one!
>
>We are talking about mangoes (or mangos!) here. Not Ambea or Mangas. I
>have shown that, in English, the term mankurad is in common usage today
>for
>that variety.
>
>The key references are the papers presented at the 5th Mango Symposium in
>Israel and at the 6th Mango Symposium, Thailand. I have given you the urls.
>
>Unfortunately I am not qualified to speak about the Konkani or Portuguese
>appellations for this or the other words you mention. Certainly, no
>dictionary I have looked at lists the varieties of mangoes, so you have set
>me an impossible task!
>
>However, I will concede that we were talking at cross-purposes. I was
>discussing current English practice and you were concerned about the
>origins.
>
>Regards
>Eddie
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Paulo Colaco Dias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 2:12 AM
>Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
>
>
> > Eddie, I will not disagree with you as long as you prove it through an
> > accredited Konkani dictionary that those words are Konkani words.
> >
> > The portuguese words you mentioned (caril for curry, cha for tea, manga
>for
> > mango, etc) are indeed included in any Portuguese dictionary.
> >
> > If you can find "Mankurad", "sucegad", "vistid", "jurament", etc in an
> > accredited Konkani dictionary, I will stand corrected.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > paulo.
> >
>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 05:04:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: The Goan Forum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Goanet] The value of bush medicine
Santosh Helekar [Not if you count the careful and
caring application of cowdung on the freshly cut
umbilical cord of an infant. Those who have
encountered this seemingly harmless act of healing
have more often than not found out that the curative
powers of cowdung, if any, are well masked by its
smell and its potential to produce tetanus.]
Hundreds of thousands of little Indian kids used to
die every year feom neonatal tetanus from this total
ignorance.
How about that little "ayurvedic" branch that is still
being used to "expel" a pregnancy - ONLY to perforate
the Uterus?
There is some benefit from our home remedies. No doubt
about it. But in general, African bush medicine &
Indian Ayurveda is a infinitely less purifies form of
Allopathic medicine.
Not to say that Allopathic Medicines do not have side
effects. They do...but much less that the bush.
There is a disease called VOD(veno-occlusive disease)
which occurs quite commonly after the consumption of
these "bushes".
BTW: attention Rt. Wingers - NOT talking about your
guy!....take it easy....
jc for TGF
=====
Recommended Goan Sites in Cyberspace
Goa-World at http://www.goa-world.net
The Goan Forum is at http://www.colaco.net
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:20:39 +0400
From: "Sunila Muzawar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
How can a mango, which when eaten, transports one straight to heaven, be
called "malcurado" which means poor colour ? Sorry folks...but I think
someone did right when they changed the name to mankurad which suggests a
meaning related to curing man or mind. ;- ) Sure man ! Mankurad has the
curative properties that lead to sheer bliss. Besides, the word "mankurad"
is far removed from any meaning related to the word "poor" being linked
with it. So I for one am happy someone changed the word from malcurado to
mankurad. Three cheers for that person !!!
Speaking of mangoes there is a Pakistani variety ...don't know what it's
called but it's delicious. It looks like the Totapuri and Neelam mango of
India which is longish in shape. Maybe some Pakistani Goan can shed more
light. This mango is exported to the Middle East and it's one of the few
things from Pakistan that I am ready to admire. ;- )
And speaking of the unholy use of words and languages, I tell you I can
stand Portuguese being abused the way it is with various sign boards in Goa
(after all I don't speak any Portuguese and so don't know any better :-))
but what I can't stand is the pseudo-English-Portuguese accents on Konkani
words. So Colgutey becomes Calangute and Ponjey becomes Panjim and so on and
so forth. And they are written that way too ! That is sheer murder. What dya
think ? ;-)
Cheers,
Sunila
>From: "Paulo Colaco Dias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View
>Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:32:43 +0000
>
>Hi Eddie,
>
>I too smell a trap in your last e-mail :-)).
>
>1. If you read the first e-mail from Gilbert, he starts this thread by
>mentioning that "malcurad" or "malcurada" are corruptions of the original
>Portuguese malcorada name. So, obviously you will not find "malcurad" in a
>Portuguese dictionary. The task you ask me is also impossible and you know
>it very well beforehand.
>
>2. As our Fred Noronha says and very well, malcorada in Portuguese means
>poor colour - mal corada. And that is exactly what the developer/creator of
>Malcorada Mangoes had in mind when he/she named that tree Malcorada
>(according to Eng. Agr. Fernando do Rego - Fontainhas -Goa - who has
>written
>an excellent and extensive study about Goan Mangoes and also according to
>other authors who have written about Goan mangoes). There are also many
>poems written in Portuguese about Goan Mangoes where you will find
>"malcorada" name. Malcorada Mango was first developed in Goa and sent to
>the
>other colonies from Brazil to Macau.
>
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------------------------------
End of goanet-digest V1 #3877
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