--- cornel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I have serious doubts about the trickle-down
> theory. Indeed, there is much in the serious
> literature to indicate that the gap between the well
> to do and the poor in the USA has widened ever so
> detrimentally in recent years. The measure of
> this kind of gap is also deemed to be a good
> yardstick internationally, to ascertain how well or
> how badly citizens are doing in a given country.
>
Mario replies:
>
Cornel, I accept you as a serious observer, albeit one
with an unbelievable misunderstanding of what
free-enterprise means. For example, I don't know what
there is to doubt about the trickle-down theory, or
what you even think it means. Trickle-down happens
automatically and constantly over here. How do you
think so many meaningful jobs are created in a free
enterprise society? Do you have any idea how many
jobs are created in the US on a net basis each and
every quarter to achieve an unemployment rate of less
than 5% for a country with a total population of 300
million, inspite of the shocks of 9/11, Cat 4
hurricanes, wars of liberation, etc.? The growing gap
you speak of is a socialist statistic that means
nothing here, even if it were true. It suggests an
envy for the success of others. Those who do slip
further behind. Here many people who start off poor
end up rich. The enterprising poor do not resent the
rich, because they, too, want to be rich some day, and
often succeed. Free enterprise provides equality of
opportunity, not equality of outcomes.
>
Cornel writes:
>
> Unfortunately, at present, my sources from the USA
> itself, and elsewhere, are not terribly positive
> about progress on this count in your country. In
> short, it could do a lot lot better.
>
Mario replies:
>
I, and most Americans, literally shun such negative
people as your "sources", because we don't ever want
to be like them. We're too busy, and cannot afford
the psychological drag. Besides, their socialist
criteria are not our criteria. If there is a place
they think is doing better, this place is not for
them. We have millions of immigrants each and every
year who risk their lives to validate our system, and
it is they who have what we call the "American
Spirit". Without this "Can Do. Never Quit" spirit it
is best to stay away from the US.
>
Cornel writes:
>
> I think capitalism is wonderful for the winners, (I
> admit to being one), but relatively painful for
> those who fall by the wayside in such a system
> through no fault of their own.
>
Mario replies:
>
More people are winners under capitalism than any
other system, the others are working at it. I'm not
sure what your definition is of "falling by the
wayside". Maybe you mean those who are too lazy or
don't want to compete. We don't have a solution for
them. This place is not for them. Those who have a
physical or mental disability are well taken care of
here, either by the state or privately.
>
Cornel writes:
>
> I also see it as ruthlessly exploitative of man and
> the environment and am not enamoured by its
> inherent orientation to satisfy human desire/greed
> rather than human need.
>
Mario writes:
>
You seem to be either intuitively a Marxist with no
understanding of basic human nature, or are severely
brain washed with misleading socialist dogma. For
example, no one who is ruthlessly exploitative would
last long here. The kind of "greed" you speak of with
so much contempt would lead to certain failure here,
if not incarceration. Every successful enterpreneur
with half a brain avoids exploitation and greed for
their own long term interest.
>
Cornel writes:
>
> I have a preference for a system which mitigates
> against the harsher realities of capitalism. In
> this sense I am much happier within an European
> model which is capitalistic, no doubt, but values
> human beings in theory and practice rather more
> than profit predominantly.
>
Mario replies:
>
You are describing a system that most of us don't even
recognize over here. No entrepreneur who does not
value human beings can succeed here. This is not
theory, but a brutal reality that an enterpreneur must
always keep in mind, day in and day out, or he or she
will surely fail.
>
Cornel writes:
>
> Nowhere there, is there comparable povery and acute
> residential segregation as in the USA. OK, I accept
> that, residential segregation in the USA,
> previously institutionalised by law as in former
> South Africa, and also 'enforced' by the
> Klan, in the South, is now changing, albeit slowly.
>
Mario replies:
>
Your view is a) so obsolete as to be unrecognizable.
South Africa? The Klan? Changing slowly? Where are
you getting such false propaganda?, b) so false as to
be delusional. Viviana and I have pointed out
elsewhere, that you arrive at such misleading views by
totally ignoring the numerous immigrant ghettoes
spread all across Europe.
>
Cornel writes:
>
> Yet, I'd rather live, apart from the UK, in a
> highly taxed Scandinavian country but which
> manifestly values human beings highly too. No doubt
> there are weaknesses and problems but a visit there
> by our American friends on Goanet and on the other
> network would be illuminating.
>
Mario writes:
>
We visit there frequently enough that we know we don't
want to live there. We can live anywhere we want.
That's why we live here.
>
Cornel writes:
>
> A final thought...if indeed the economic system is
> so good in the USA, why is this 'fact' not so
> persuasive that there would be many more takers for
> the system, especially from Western Europe and other
> relatively prosperous countries?
>
Mario writes:
>
a) False, as Santosh would say. We have millions of
takers flooding into our country each and every year,
legally, illegally, and every which way, many risking
their lives to do so. Maybe this is not reported in
the news sources you follow. b) the socialists like
yourself do not have the balls to live without a huge
safety net, c) We study and work and hustle and make
our own safety net here, so that we don't have to
depend on favors by others. d) We don't consider
Western Europe to be as successful as you think it is,
and I personally believe that the European countries
are "has beens" that are now feckless, selfish,
incredibly weak and incapable of helping keep the
world safe from the current peril of Islamo-fascism.
